Indiana Jones 5 (2020)

Phazael

Phazael

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TJT said:
I think in most cases torch passing doesn't work. Like, make something new?

They are just talentless so they can't.
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There have been a couple so-so to ok torch passes. Ironically, Disney had one of the best ones and dropped it in favor of shit like Tomorrow Land when they did the Tron 2.0 movie. Ghostbusters Afterlife was fairly decent. Star Trek Generations was passable, if unremarkable. The Creed series was solid. But yeah pretty much every other attempt to torch pass has ended in dismal failure. And I am at my limit with reboots and "soft reboots" as well. Its the studios themselves at fault here. Even if they had real writing talent (spoiler alert they generally do not) the amount of money being spent on movies makes them stupidly risk averse, so no one wants to roll the dice on a new IP.
 
TomServo

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Phazael said:
There have been a couple so-so to ok torch passes. Ironically, Disney had one of the best ones and dropped it in favor of shit like Tomorrow Land when they did the Tron 2.0 movie. Ghostbusters Afterlife was fairly decent. Star Trek Generations was passable, if unremarkable. The Creed series was solid. But yeah pretty much every other attempt to torch pass has ended in dismal failure. And I am at my limit with reboots and "soft reboots" as well. Its the studios themselves at fault here. Even if they had real writing talent (spoiler alert they generally do not) the amount of money being spent on movies makes them stupidly risk averse, so no one wants to roll the dice on a new IP.
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Cobra Kai.
 
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Phazael

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Yeah I debated that one and whether it was a spin off or torch pass. I guess its a little of both.
 
Phazael

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Kirk and Picard working together to save a planet was pretty much as cookie cutter of torch passing as it gets. This was also the TNG's cast first movie appearance (unless you want to count Dorn playing Worf's grandfather in Undiscovered Country).
 
Chukzombi

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j00t said:
to counter this, hemsworth has mostly stayed away from projects like that. it's entirely possible that when he signed on to ghostbusters it didn't have nearly the same tone as when they started shooting. at some point you just have to go to work and do your job and leave it at that. and with thor love and thunder, i REALLY feel like a TON of the issues became evident in the editing. one of the main complaints of that movie is how the humor didn't work. humor in movies is always a huge question while you're filming it. the crew could be cracking up during filming but none of it transfers to the final project and all the jokes feel flat. then you add the massive tonal shifts from one scene to another and it just leaves a super uncomfortable feeling for the audience.

we were ALL excited for love and thunder because taika was just tossing out gold left and right and so many people loved ragnarok. i always had issues with the tonal shifts between serious mental health issues and silly jokes occupying the exact same moment, but the jokes were good so it at least you laughed despite it being extremely clear that taika didn't take the source material seriously.

so hemsworth being excited (and contractually bound) to just show up and do his job is sort of a foregone conclusion. but he's made it pretty clear that he's done with taika's goofy tone.
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what gets me is that Ragnarok worked and so they just gave the L&T movie to Watiti with no interference. meanwhile thats not why Ragnerok worked. they should have kept the same balance in L&T as they did in Rag and they would have had possibly the same result. when there was somebody to tell Watiti, this is good, but this is stupid so cut that out, they were able to make something coherent. with him being allowed to pursue every drug fueled whim in the movie, it turned into shit. shit that mocked Jane, with cancer.
 
Chris

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Deathwing said:
Don't give that movie an undeserved accolade. TNG was on the air for 7 years prior, passing the torch was unnecessary.
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I was going to say, TNG did just fine with zero torch passing and had minimal cameos. I think they had 1 episode with Scotty and 2 with Spock and not in the first few seasons.

It was a different time, the 80s and 90s didn't need to pass a torch, they could build a torch.
 
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j00t

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Chris said:
I was going to say, TNG did just fine with zero torch passing and had minimal cameos. I think they had 1 episode with Scotty and 2 with Spock and not in the first few seasons.

It was a different time, the 80s and 90s didn't need to pass a torch, they could build a torch.
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deforrest kelly was in an episode, too. don't forget nurse chapel became the voice of the enterprise. spock's father Sarek was in a bunch of episodes. there were PLENTY of original cast members showing up in TNG, generations was a bad movie and really didn't need to happen
 
DickTrickle

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Rabbit_Games said:
Could also be that they know their target audience. Fill the seats with a woke crowd and then show them the "You stole from indigenous people" scene and they'll give you a 10-minute standing ovation and 10 Star reviews. Then normal people go watch the movie and Rotten Tomatoes suddenly shows a 1% audience score.
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Except it's not getting good reviews so this entire paragraph is nonsensical. Even the positive ones are pretty mild in their praise.
 
Cybsled

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Chris said:
I was going to say, TNG did just fine with zero torch passing and had minimal cameos. I think they had 1 episode with Scotty and 2 with Spock and not in the first few seasons.

It was a different time, the 80s and 90s didn't need to pass a torch, they could build a torch.
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You forget that the TOS vs TNG+ division was a lot stronger back then , as it was very much a new vs older fan thing at the time

To put it in perspective, less time had passed since the end of TOS and the movie Generations (25 yrs) than Generations to now. The fan base has aged and now the TNG/DS9/VOY era are what TOS was to the OG fans
 
Chukzombi

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Cybsled said:
You forget that the TOS vs TNG+ division was a lot stronger back then , as it was very much a new vs older fan thing at the time

To put it in perspective, less time had passed since the end of TOS and the movie Generations (25 yrs) than Generations to now. The fan base has aged and now the TNG/DS9/VOY era are what TOS was to the OG fans
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I'm still TOS ride or die. havent watched the TNG shows, but i did like the movies. the Borg are interesting villains.
 
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Daezuel

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The TNG movies are mostly awful compared to the series. That said TOS all the way. The Kirk/Spock/McCoy dynamic puts it over the top for me.

(and speaking of Generations dunno how many people actually look at the Picard thread, this is 100% worth the watch.)

 
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Ambiturner

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Ossoi said:
That's an interesting one because it's clearly made with respect for the originals, but the tone is radically different and it keeps jumping for shark with how many characters it brings back
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If Johnny/Daniel showed up for a scene here a few times a season would be passing the torch.

Johnny being the "main" character with Daniel right behind him makes it a spinoff/continuation.
 
Hateyou

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I haven’t watched the Creed movies but I’ve heard those were a good torch pass.
 
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Angerz

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Hateyou said:
I haven’t watched the Creed movies but I’ve heard those were a good torch pass.
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Creed 1 is incredible and Stallone was robbed to not win an Oscar that year.

Creed 3 finally had no Stallone in it, and there was no doubt that it was still the same world we started in nearly 50 years ago now.
 
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Ossoi

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Ambiturner said:
If Johnny/Daniel showed up for a scene here a few times a season would be passing the torch.

Johnny being the "main" character with Daniel right behind him makes it a spinoff/continuation.
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that's a completely different point to the one I was making.

The original KK movies are relatively serious movies/grounded in realism even though some aspects are borderline absurd if you think about them too hard, and they get sillier throughout the trilogy e.g Terry Silver being an industrial waste magnate who takes time out to launch a revenge campain against a teenager. The fight scenes with the exception of the special moves are mostly choreographed to be realistic.

Cobra Kai is made with respect for the originals and yes it continues the story of Daniel/Johnny (although they retconned Johnny a bit by making him a stepson), but it's a less serious production than the originals. The fight scenes are more over the top, some of the characters are ridiculous eg Hawk, Stingray,. I realise it's being made for a different audience/generation but sometimes it feels like they're winking at the camera to say "we know this is absurd but just go with it"
 
Rabbit_Games

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DickTrickle said:
Except it's not getting good reviews so this entire paragraph is nonsensical. Even the positive ones are pretty mild in their praise.
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You really need to learn how to read. I made it very clear that there's a difference between the reviews you hear from their padded audience and the real reviews once the movie is released. The padded audience gave Ford a standing ovation and raved about the film. Real audiences are the ones dumping on it.
 
DickTrickle

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Rabbit_Games said:
You really need to learn how to read. I made it very clear that there's a difference between the reviews you hear from their padded audience and the real reviews once the movie is released. The padded audience gave Ford a standing ovation and raved about the film. Real audiences are the ones dumping on it.
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Lol. I can read just fine but you have a problem fitting your narrative to this example. Cannes gave him a standing ovation because he was there and old.

Professional reviewers, the kind you hate, who were also in attendance gave him mediocre reviews in their publications. You can't say they're raving at the film because of a standing ovation when they dump on the film in their actual review.

Tell me who you think the "real audiences" are now five weeks before it releases? The only ones who have seen it are those in test screenings and at Cannes.
 
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