Fogel
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Interesting, Non Political News
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Aldarion
Egg Nazi
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Yes but the Hillis guy is explicitly rejecting the idea that genetic differences and reproductive isolation are enough to call it a different species. Hes literally doing the "if they can breed in a zoo theyre the same species" thing, embracing a strawman for some kind of shock value or something.
Pasteton
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Is there some rule where if two things can produce offspring that can produce their own offspring that they are the same species? Like how a horse and donkey can make a mule but the mule is sterile and can’t make more mules (as horse and donkeys are not the same species)
Furry
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Common misconception is that Mules are sterile. They are not, they just have much difficulty conceiving. There's a turbo-autistic professor that has done lots and lots of research into hybrids and writes books on the subject, Eugene McCarthy. He has a proper skepticism of the psuedo-scientific aspects, though presents them in his interest of being thorough. I don't know if he's done a book on the subject, but he has produced papers/materials contending with lots of evidence that humans are hybrids.
If you want to know how hybrids work, there's definitely quite the rabbit hole to go down.
Cybsled
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It also really depends on how divergent the species are.
One interesting thing with Neanderthals and Homo Sapiens is we find absolutely zero Neanderthal mitochondria in the surviving human population. As mitochondria are only inherited from the mother, that either means that male neanderthal + female homo sapien were the only viable mating pair in terms of producing non-sterile offspring or because of some quirk of bad luck, no female neanderthal + male homo sapien produced offspring survived to adulthood and/or had enough descendants survive until the modern era. The 1st is probably the most likely
One interesting thing with Neanderthals and Homo Sapiens is we find absolutely zero Neanderthal mitochondria in the surviving human population. As mitochondria are only inherited from the mother, that either means that male neanderthal + female homo sapien were the only viable mating pair in terms of producing non-sterile offspring or because of some quirk of bad luck, no female neanderthal + male homo sapien produced offspring survived to adulthood and/or had enough descendants survive until the modern era. The 1st is probably the most likely
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Aldarion
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No one in actual biology has taken the "biological species concept" seriously for probably a hundred years. Sterile offspring doesnt factor into the distinction.
Species are defined by genetic divergence plus reproductive isolation. Thats it.
Dave Hillis is just doing some weird troll in that article. His latest postdoc must not be putting out so hes getting grumpy and seeking entertainment elsewhere.
Cybsled
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I don’t think there is a generally agreed upon number, especially when dealing with sub species and species still in the process of diverging
I think in terms of genetic differences, Neanderthal and homo sapien are measured in fractions of a percent (which takes into account the fact we carry some Neanderthal genes to this day)
I think in terms of genetic differences, Neanderthal and homo sapien are measured in fractions of a percent (which takes into account the fact we carry some Neanderthal genes to this day)
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Aldarion
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no there is not a simple threshold that defines the line, in part because these processes vary so much between different groups.
its defined more by reproductive isolation: evidence that two populations are not interbreeding to any meaningful extent (little to no "gene flow" between them). Reproductive isolation leads to genetic divergence, over time. Speciation is a process, two groups may be undergoing speciation currently and show little genetic divergence at the present time.
Modern debates about classification are all about "how much genetic data do we need" and "how do we analyze it", never about "can they make a baby"
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Bandwagon
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Sludig
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Izo
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TBT-TheBigToe
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Fogel
Mr. Poopybutthole
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My parents live in Mississippi and it's very white, well at least around them which is the key. They have never been to Jackson in the 15 years they have lived there. The only black person I see on a regular basis when I visit them is the guy that does yard work for them. Full time he's an electrician for the local timber mill. He is NOT a fan of Mexcans after they had an issue at the mill. He said they don't have Mexcans anymore. I did go to walmart once after I got sick and was using a cane. Every time I went in and out a door a black person held it open for me.
My ex girlfriend is from Alabama and she lived in suburb of Birmingham that is listed as one of the most affluent in the county with an average income of $250k or so. She said it was odd there were fewer black people in MS where my parents lived than where she grew up in Alabama. When I went when you left Birminham they had a large bridge and two deputies in a car on each side. My ex said they had a name and everyone knew them, they are just there to make sure black people don't get "lost" and point them in the right direction.
I drove through the delta in MS once. It made the houses you can see through the cracks across from Exxon look like mansions. I'm not sure I saw a white person in the delta. Jim Henson was from there, the guy that made the muppets and from what I've seen/read it has always been 99.99% black since cotton days.
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Hateyou
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Furry
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Cybsled
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But if you are deceitful, then saying you are deceitful is telling the truth, which isn't deceitful. And if you ask a deceitful person if someone else is deceitful, they will say a person who tells the truth is deceitful.
Now please pick the correct door