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Arden

Blackwing Lair Raider
2,632
1,925
Anyone who quad kited or played a Tank or CC class with any proficiency at all in dungeons was playing in third person.
Nah, played both a druid and chanter to end game and never used 3rd person to quad or CC. I'll grant you 3rd person might have been useful for quadding, but I didn't need it. As far as CC goes, I would not have wanted to even try that in 3rd person.

Edit: Played a wiz to end game too- forgot. Tons of quadding. Never used 3rd person, even at raptors.
 

Grim1

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,854
6,812
Anyone who quad kited or played a Tank or CC class with any proficiency at all in dungeons was playing in third person.
Tank here. Sk tank in the days when Shadowknights caused an xp hit for the whole group. But my rep was such that nobody cared. I had instant group invites when I logged in (miss the days when server rep mattered). That rep also got me into the top guild where I was the prime trash tank, which meant tanking everything except the boss.

All tanking done in first person, always, for years.

I never played in 3rd person (hated 3rd person games anyways) except when I was fd and checking out spawns. First person was very viable in EQ, even for a tank. Personally, I think it gave me an advantage over the slower players using 3rd person, but that was because of EQ's targeting mechanics. It also helped that I came to EQ from fps games and that it took a doctorate to use 3rd person in EQ before they fixed it.

I still prefer first person play, but now every mmo is designed for 3rd person and first person, if it exists at all, is just a gimmick. A mmo that forces players into first person would be cool, not sure how well it will do though. So many mmo players are incapable of playing without their 3rd person crutch.
 

uniqueuser

Vyemm Raider
1,737
4,888
Anyone favoring FPV in EQ either didn't play on a PvP server or was constantly being coined. The FoV was so narrow you might as well have been wearing blinders.
 

McFly

<Aristocrat╭ರ_•́>
1,302
862
I played in first person as a Bard up to the end of PoP. Swarm kite in FPV? Yep. Main puller in FPV? Yep. Twist 4 songs, while mezzing mobs and kicking ass? Yep.

EQ was not only viable in first person, it was glorious fun. The only time I used 3rd was on my monk when FD.
 

DickTrickle

Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
12,758
14,598
AE kiting with a bard in first person sounds like a terrible experience. I always used third person for that.
 

Greyform

Bronze Knight of the Realm
431
17
Tank here. Sk tank in the days when Shadowknights caused an xp hit for the whole group. But my rep was such that nobody cared. I had instant group invites when I logged in (miss the days when server rep mattered). That rep also got me into the top guild where I was the prime trash tank, which meant tanking everything except the boss.

All tanking done in first person, always, for years.

I never played in 3rd person (hated 3rd person games anyways) except when I was fd and checking out spawns. First person was very viable in EQ, even for a tank. Personally, I think it gave me an advantage over the slower players using 3rd person, but that was because of EQ's targeting mechanics. It also helped that I came to EQ from fps games and that it took a doctorate to use 3rd person in EQ before they fixed it.

I still prefer first person play, but now every mmo is designed for 3rd person and first person, if it exists at all, is just a gimmick. A mmo that forces players into first person would be cool, not sure how well it will do though. So many mmo players are incapable of playing without their 3rd person crutch.
hmm, first person tanking trash was a good way to miss adds. you can call it a crutch, but I preferred to see what was in the group at all times and grabbing crap before it started beating down the healer.
 

Quaid

Trump's Staff
11,522
7,810
If you were playing in first person as a CC or tank (especially off tank) class you were straight up playing sub optimally. You may have gotten by, but you weren't using every tool at your disposal, and your situational awareness suffered for it.

Healers took unnecessary damage in your groups. Sorry bros.
 

Grim1

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,854
6,812
hmm, first person tanking trash was a good way to miss adds. you can call it a crutch, but I preferred to see what was in the group at all times and grabbing crap before it started beating down the healer.
I had very good situation awareness in first person and always was aware of adds before anyone else, had them tagged and agroed before they hit anyone else. I was recruited by the top guild on the server (did not have to apply) because of my abilities as a tank (and also a puller). Remember also, that back then SK's and Paladins were usually only taken by raiding guilds so that loot wouldn't rot.

When not tanking trash mobs in raids I grouped with the best dps, clerics and cc players on the server. I mass pulled, agroed everything and they were able to nuke / backstab at full power doing the toughest content available. I kept the enchanters alive when breaking mez and the shamans alive when they cannied themselves almost to death. It was those groups that allowed me to be one of the first players on the server to max level every time it was upped.

People forget that EQ was built for first person play. That is why I was able to do it so well. In every other mmo, you are forced into 3rd person because it is impossible to play first person and be as effective.
 

Arden

Blackwing Lair Raider
2,632
1,925
If you were playing in first person as a CC or tank (especially off tank) class you were straight up playing sub optimally. You may have gotten by, but you weren't using every tool at your disposal, and your situational awareness suffered for it.

Healers took unnecessary damage in your groups. Sorry bros.
Looks like I'm going to have to reevaluate my entire life up to this point. Here I was thinking I was a pretty decent chanter, just to find out I owe a lot of clerics, druids, and shamans an apology.
frown.png
 

Quaid

Trump's Staff
11,522
7,810
Looks like I'm going to have to reevaluate my entire life up to this point. Here I was thinking I was a pretty decent chanter, just to find out I owe a lot of clerics, druids, and shamans an apology.
frown.png
You must have been pretty decent to have quadded without using third person dude. I remember kiting BB dwarves on my Druid before I even knew about third person and it was a fucking nightmare. Can't imagine doing Raptors or Wyverns that way.
 

Slaythe

<Bronze Donator>
3,389
141
I remember doing a lot of camera switching. That being a pretty constant thing that occurred during any real mob killing part of the game. But for running around or anything else? Always first person there. I'll always think of my EQ characters from a first person perspective though. Simply because you spent more time running around and bullshitting in that game than anything else.
 

Aldarion

Egg Nazi
8,815
24,055
If you were playing in first person as a CC or tank (especially off tank) class you were straight up playing sub optimally. You may have gotten by, but you weren't using every tool at your disposal, and your situational awareness suffered for it.

Healers took unnecessary damage in your groups. Sorry bros.
No, you are wrong, probably because you used one of the sub optimal methods I described previously. First person was never a disadvantage assuming people didnt do stupid things like use the mouse for clicking hotkeys or targetting, or use the keyboard for turning.

I played druid, enchanter and warrior; first person was optimal for all three. You were missing out.

A quick flick of the fingers turned your character 360?, and tab targetted. There was no downside to first person, only benefits.
 

Quaid

Trump's Staff
11,522
7,810
No, you are wrong, probably because you used one of the sub optimal methods I described previously. First person was never a disadvantage assuming people didnt do stupid things like use the mouse for clicking hotkeys or targetting, or use the keyboard for turning.

I played druid, enchanter and warrior; first person was optimal for all three. You were missing out.

A quick flick of the fingers turned your character 360?, and tab targetted. There was no downside to first person, only benefits.
Nope.

We aren't discussing targeting ease/ability, that's irrelevant for reasons you mentioned. We are talking about situational/battlefield awareness. First person is inferior in that regard. There really isn't an argument to be made.

First person was far more 'immersive'. That's about it.
 

Greyform

Bronze Knight of the Realm
431
17
There really is no argument. Third person you could see everything around the group. Adds that were pathing towards it, determine if it would need to be pulled, left alone or let a chanter know to mez it whatever. In first person you just would not even know it was there until it was there. I do not really care how awesome you were as a tank. Seeing the entire battlefield is obviously better than seeing a portion of it.
 

McFly

<Aristocrat╭ರ_•́>
1,302
862
In first person you just would not even know it was there until it was there.
Did you play EQ? Because playing that game was like playing the original Street Fighter. Things moved SLOW! You don't need situational awareness in a game where adds were so predictable.

3rd person is a necessity in games today like Black Desert. You didn't get a superomgwinmode in 3rd in EQ. Elite players were using 1st person, elite players were using 3rd. If I can be elite and get more immersion in 1st, then gimme first.
 

Grim1

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,854
6,812
Nope.

We aren't discussing targeting ease/ability, that's irrelevant for reasons you mentioned. We are talking about situational/battlefield awareness. First person is inferior in that regard. There really isn't an argument to be made.

First person was far more 'immersive'. That's about it.
Now you're just trollin'. You obviously never played tank at a very high level in early EQ.

I could see a warrior perhaps using 3rd person while tanking a boss in the corner with defensive, but they had a boring job anyways. Or a slow group too afraid to pull multiple mobs while stuck in "one at a time" mode. There were a lot of monk pullers who spent more time saying "look at me pull a single!" while my group powered ahead of them.

And the reason I was asked to tank for the best players is because I wasn't slow at pulling and could keep agro off of anybody, even with multiple mobs / adds, and no matter how much they nuked / backstabbed. When adds came I dealt with it. Nobody died except the mobs... very fast.

And it was all done in first person because 3rd person in EQ was for the slow people.

3rd person is the only way to play in every mmo after EQ starting with WoW. You gimp yourself if you don't play in third person in modern mmos. But EQ's early dungeon design and crappy 3rd person mechanics made 3rd person players slow and pathetic.
 

Grim1

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,854
6,812
Heheh. So true, and guilty as charged.

EQ for life! Or as Draegan would say.. !FOR THE NECKBEARDS!
 

Aldarion

Egg Nazi
8,815
24,055
Arguments about EQ bring back memories. Quaid, your still wrong, but this was fun. Thank you.

I swear we had the same argument a decade ago!

(PS, when youre in first person you are still allowed to turn around, ya know... its a flick of the fingers. Theres no loss of situational awareness unless you blindly stare straight ahead)