League Of Legends

earthfell_sl said:

You need to embrace being bad, Sidian. If you weren't such a baddie, your Jinx wouldn't have dc'd or spammed chat. Next time try owning your lane harder, problems solved.

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Nope, I was support. Can't carry as support! My play was A++++++. Only reason I lost was because Jinx. Bad Jinx. Reported Jinx. I win.

No you won't. They've said that they'll be playing up support's utility and deal with gold issues, which is nice, but it's not what makes a champ a carry.

Well, if any of the early info is any indication, supports will totally be able to carry. Anyone who has played any aram knows what a fucking unholy terror 500ap Sona is. The way things have been presented so far it's not super difficult for a support to wind up ahead of a solo lane in gold, depending on their assists.

A good support with gear can carry against the right opponents. ARAM is a good eye opener for people who are used to dealing with supports who have zero gear. A full ADC thresh is pretty terrifying his first hit if he has not auto attacked recently hits like a damn truck sona is a pew pew kiting machines especially if she can get some extra HP so she does not evaporate if you sneeze on her.

Sona is a terror in ARAM because it's hard for her not to hit over half their team with her ult in the narrow lane and because her multi-target heal is so effective, she's still not putting out the damage that the carries are. I'm actually shocked someone would suggest that about a champ with only one damaging AP ability on a 7 second cooldown.

If your only definition of "carry" is doing the most dps 1v1 in the shortest time span, then yes, supports will not be doing that. That is not really what carrying is, though.

My definition of carry is a champ which can change the game without relying on other champs. Sona's kit will never allow for that, how is this even an argument?

Fawe_sl said:

Supports are part of the team and can have just as much impact on the outcome of a game than any other player.

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That's got little to do with S4, and fuck all to do with the conversation. Are supports important? Of course, even in S3 they are a crucial member of the team. Can they carry? No. Will S4 change that? No.

The argument is your definition of carry, which is different than everyone else's. That's why.

Just to be clear, there is NO champ that can 1v5 a game to victory. Not one. Every person in a 5 person team, regardless of champ, is changing the game in some way. Supports and junglers are getting more gold (and they got an ok amount in soloq before, just not in high elo games) to change the game more, to be on equal footing with everyone else from an item standpoint. Supports arguably already controlled how bot lane went, now they'll stay that impactful for longer.

AP janna is fun to play.

If your definition of carry is "an important role on the team" then your definition of carry is fucking stupid. That's every champ in the game.

The typical use of carry by what I have seen in game and on the forums is a person exerting a significant influence on the outcome of the game, way more than the other players on their team. That is "carrying". That's why Diamond I players can "carry" their way out of bronze on any champ in any role. Just because Mage/Marksmen have "carry" as part of their unofficial titles doesn't mean they're the only ones that can, in fact, carry. That is an equally stupid definition.

I do not carry every game I'm in. But I have carried games in every role, with a multitude of champs, including support champs, at one point or another. Games where I played so well I wish I could always play like that, many steps ahead, timing everything perfectly, using every ability to its capacity. That is how people use the word carry in League.

No matter how fed Sona gets she can't push tower, she can't wave clear, she can't win a game without other teammates around her, that's the very definition of support and the opposite of a carry. I'm literally astounded at how stupid this argument is.

So every time someone in the game or after the game says "X is carrying us/you" you just say they're using the word wrong, instead of accepting other people use the word differently than you? Wave clearing is not carrying. Sona with items can kill a tower or Nexus as fast or faster than TF. People in the support position in S4 appear to have almost as much gold as solo laners, so there's no reason to think "supports" won't be exerting a lot of influence over the game.

Fawe_sl said:

Amzin's definition is precisely how I see it, too. He also makes a very good point about the Support-Mains in Diamond/Challenger etc. They "carried" themselves to that position more likely than not.

Carrying is exactly what Amzin says: "a person exerting a significant influence on the outcome of the game". This could also mean making tactical decisions, which is a PLAYER skill and not anything to do with the champion you're on.

No champion can single-handily win the game. So by your definition every champion is a support.

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An Assassin Top that snowballs can carry the team.
Any mid that snowballs can carry the team.
Any ADC that snowballs can carry the team.

If someone goes 20+/0 they're almost guaranteed to win if the use that advantage to snowball their team.

I suppose it's possible for a jungle assassin like Lee Sin or Nocturne to snowball and carry their team. But Jungle / Support even played perfectly can't win the game by themselves.

No one can win the game by themselves. You are all massively underestimating how insane most of the traditional supports become when they actually get to build items. Does no one remember how much bullshit AP Janna is? Or Rylais Soraka?

Yeah AP Carry Raka is OP, that must be why she's so common. Your arguments are getting worse and worse.