League Of Legends

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Utah
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A few days ago I was trying to learn the vernacular so I searched League of Legends Dictionary and got this forum post, nothing official.

League of Legends Glossary/Dictionary/ Abbrevations/Thesaurus - League of Legends Community

Carry - The meaning of carry varies from player to player, and so it?s hard to pinpoint one exact definition that will encompass all meanings. A carry is a champion who is very weak early game and so needs to be ?carried? by his team in order to survive. But is extremely strong late game and then does most of the continuous damage of the team and so can ?carry? the team. These champions are usually champions that rely on autoattacks for their main damage output (in which case they are called AD carries - because the items they buy focus on their Attack Damage) , and autoattacks only really start to do a lot of damage when you have a lot of items to support them, hence why you?ll only be strong late game, when you have all your items. Carries often go in the bottom lane together with a support champion who supports/helps/carries them during their difficult early laning phase. Even during mid and late game, though they have a high damage output, they will still be very squishy and so will need a tank or other champions to protect or ?carry? them.
Some champions are sometimes referred to as AP carries, these would be champions that are able to put out a continuous large amount of magic damage in late game (but usually throughout the game).
Players often say ?I carried this game? or ?I carried this team? and this is not a reference to one of the specific definitions above but just a general way of boasting and saying they were the best on their team and they were the deciding factor in bringing their team to victory.
 

Ravishing

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If someone goes 20+/0 they're almost guaranteed to win if the use that advantage to snowball their team.
Supports/Junglers/Any Champion that goes 20+/0 can carry the team. It's just ONE way to carry a game. Getting 20/0 isn't easy and also being 20/0 doesn't mean you can 1v5 in most cases.
 

ronne

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Yeah AP Carry Raka is OP, that must be why she's so common. Your arguments are getting worse and worse.
That makes no sense and has nothing at all to do with the discussion. Of course it's not common, she can't lane. The point is with the way the new gold works out for supports there's an actual viable path for supports to reach 4+ item territory. Go play a few arams until you see Janna show up then come back and try this again.
 

The Ancient_sl

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OH ARAM! Such a valid argument again . No shit Janna is amazing in ARAM, once again, hard to miss her Q in the thin lane, and she has damage reduction and heals which are particularly well suited to a matchup where you can't B back to get health at the base. Stop using ARAM as an argument for anything, the dynamic is completely different. Shen must be a shit champ cause he sucks in ARAM.
 

ronne

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I can't tell if you're missing the point on purpose or are just being a cunt about it. It's the only arena that traditional support gets to have a real item build, and they are goddamn monsters if they get it.
 

The Ancient_sl

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It's also the only arena where your teammates are omnipresent which makes it a fucking awful example to use to say a champ is strong on their own. Also the dynamic is completely different, owing to expected deaths, decreased rez timers, decreased objectives. It's a stupid example to use. Yes Janna is really strong in ARAM. She's really strong in Champions Rift too, what's your point? She doesn't fit the definition of a Carry in the arena that matters. The arena where the roles actually exist. I might as well make the argument that no champ is a good jungler because they all suck at it in ARAM.
 

Ravishing

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I don't care about ARAM either as it's kinda different gametype and still only focuses on DAMAGE builds. There are many ways to carry a game. If I'm jungle Nunu I tend to have the highest kill participation, and most importantly I get early barons and control dragon. I am usually "carrying" my team. I don't care if I do less damage or have less kills. I also take structures slowly and push waves slowly, but I certainly do carry most of the time.

If your definition is who can do the most damage than fine. Discussion over. My definition will always be different than yours.
 

Eidal

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Dude, I understand I am not pro. I win more than I love. EVERYONE has some bad beats that you just want to come to a forum and vent your frustration and have people be like dude that sucks and move on. Instead you get fucking retarded posts like yours that completely ignore the meat and potatoes of my post and say the same rehashed shit over and over again.
I, too, react violently when my friends launch into a bad-beat story about their most recent LoL game. I can't stand it. I don't have the slightest interest in hitting up my buddies telling them about how I "totally would have won a game but didn't because...". I just absolutely cannot relate to it yet the huge majority of my friends list seems to save up all their harrowing tales just to inundate me with them when I log on. Then they react exactly the way you do when I grumpily start saying "well fucking play better and maybe you'd carry".

Think about it -- how often do you strike up a conversation with a friend and want him to say nothing more than ("that sucks"). I NEVER do that -- its not communication, its some ridiculous variety of male emotional support. Ughhhh.
 

The Ancient_sl

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I don't care about ARAM either as it's kinda different gametype and still only focuses on DAMAGE builds. There are many ways to carry a game. If I'm jungle Nunu I tend to have the highest kill participation, and most importantly I get early barons and control dragon. I am usually "carrying" my team. I don't care if I do less damage or have less kills. I also take structures slowly and push waves slowly, but I certainly do carry most of the time.

If your definition is who can do the most damage than fine. Discussion over. My definition will always be different than yours.
When you gank as Nunu do you typically try to get the kill or cede it to the laner? Would you do something differently if you were jungling Master Yi who is typically referred to as a "carry jungler". Do you get why this vernacular is used in regards to how the champ plays in the late game?
 

Ravishing

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When you gank as Nunu do you typically try to get the kill or cede it to the laner? Would you do something differently if you were jungling Master Yi who is typically referred to as a "carry jungler". Do you get why this vernacular is used?
I know why the vernacular is used, and I use it myself to try and explain the difference between a tanky jungler & damage jungler.

I am in no way saying that an ADC, AP MID, Bruiser, or whatever is NOT a carry. I am saying that they don't always carry. There is a difference. Sure, a Jungle Yi goes into the game wanting to carry and builds +dmg because that is the best way to do it as Yi. If Jungle Yi gets off to a bad start and begins to feed he will not be carrying his team. If his team wins the game and the Jungle Yi is 3-12-4 or someshit, you can't say he carried anything.

Same applies if my ADC & Mid are shit, the rest of the team has to "Carry".

As jungle Nunu I will cede kills only if I think the laner has the potential to carry eventually. I have definitely secured kills from my adc/mid lane plenty of times, especially if they are doing terrible.
 

Draegan_sl

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I, too, react violently when my friends launch into a bad-beat story about their most recent LoL game. I can't stand it. I don't have the slightest interest in hitting up my buddies telling them about how I "totally would have won a game but didn't because...". I just absolutely cannot relate to it yet the huge majority of my friends list seems to save up all their harrowing tales just to inundate me with them when I log on. Then they react exactly the way you do when I grumpily start saying "well fucking play better and maybe you'd carry".

Think about it -- how often do you strike up a conversation with a friend and want him to say nothing more than ("that sucks"). I NEVER do that -- its not communication, its some ridiculous variety of male emotional support. Ughhhh.
People sit down at a bar and drink a beer to blow off steam after having a shitty day. This happens every day all over the place, this is nothing different.

However, there is a difference between just blowing off steam after having a shitty game with shitty teammates and using it as an excuse as to why you are ranked where you are ranked. So it depends on who it's coming from I guess.
 

Arbitrary

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Yeah AP Carry Raka is OP, that must be why she's so common. Your arguments are getting worse and worse.
Anyone remember the IPL4 game where Dignitas used revamp Soraka middle and Lulu top and were rewarded for their strat with champ bans in all future matches and nerfs to both champions literally the next patch after? Janna has seen changes specifically to keep AP Janna from ever being a thing.

Most of the supports that are very good are very good with very little money and few, if any, items that synergize with their kit. They are relevant to the game with boots, locket, sightstone or boots, reverie, sightstone. If they have legitimate amounts of gold in S4 and the value of gold for the stats it gives stays about the same no one is prepared for what they are going to see. You do not want to run in to the support Zyra who had the gold to pick up Torment + Rylais or try and teamfight versus Deathcap + Morellonomican Janna or facecheck the support Annie with DFG + Sorcs + Guise. Most of the crazy good buttons of support characters have crazy good scaling too but they just never get to benefit from it.

Giving more gold to supports and junglers is just more gold that is going to be in the game for each side. That gold is going to become additional items of death or tankiness. Take any game you've had and mentally drop at least one extra big, full item on the jungler and one big full item on the support and think about how the game would have changed if that were the case.

In S4 you'll be able to carry as support.
You can carry in S3 as a support. You just need to completely discard the way that supports are played in tournament games. Almost everyone I see goes with the full consumable start and builds Philo, Sightstone, Mobility every single time. That shit is just so retarded.
 

Furry

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OH ARAM! Such a valid argument again . No shit Janna is amazing in ARAM, once again, hard to miss her Q in the thin lane, and she has damage reduction and heals which are particularly well suited to a matchup where you can't B back to get health at the base. Stop using ARAM as an argument for anything, the dynamic is completely different. Shen must be a shit champ cause he sucks in ARAM.
Aram can be used to tell you things about the regular game. Namely, a lot of supports are EXCELLENT team fighters if farmed. Sona and Janna are good at every point of game, soraka is beast if farmed late game, Taric lulu and karma are excellent early game but get a bit weaker late game, but still remain good.

Shen also happens to be quite good at aram as well, so don't know what your'e smoking there.

Anyways, if they give a way for characters to get gold easy without doing anything via items, people will farm AND get those items, just increasing the power gap between regular and support anyways. Any item path to fixing the problem of support is a huge waste of time, it will never work. Mechanics of gold must be changed.
 

Arbitrary

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I think the direction they are going is just fine. Competitive supporting in S3 is a pile of monkey vomit. It's just that I don't believe them when they say they want junglers and supports to have more gold and I don't believe the rank and file of the player base is ready to play games where two players on each team are completing 1-2 more items than they are right now.

But full steam ahead I say.
 

kaid

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Anyone remember the IPL4 game where Dignitas used revamp Soraka middle and Lulu top and were rewarded for their strat with champ bans in all future matches and nerfs to both champions literally the next patch after? Janna has seen changes specifically to keep AP Janna from ever being a thing.

Most of the supports that are very good are very good with very little money and few, if any, items that synergize with their kit. They are relevant to the game with boots, locket, sightstone or boots, reverie, sightstone. If they have legitimate amounts of gold in S4 and the value of gold for the stats it gives stays about the same no one is prepared for what they are going to see. You do not want to run in to the support Zyra who had the gold to pick up Torment + Rylais or try and teamfight versus Deathcap + Morellonomican Janna or facecheck the support Annie with DFG + Sorcs + Guise. Most of the crazy good buttons of support characters have crazy good scaling too but they just never get to benefit from it.

Giving more gold to supports and junglers is just more gold that is going to be in the game for each side. That gold is going to become additional items of death or tankiness. Take any game you've had and mentally drop at least one extra big, full item on the jungler and one big full item on the support and think about how the game would have changed if that were the case.



You can carry in S3 as a support. You just need to completely discard the way that supports are played in tournament games. Almost everyone I see goes with the full consumable start and builds Philo, Sightstone, Mobility every single time. That shit is just so retarded.
This is a bit of a chicken and egg argument. Supports now are balanced to be good with minimal amounts of gold and bad scaling. For a long time a lot of the supports had very strong AP scaling back when it was expected for them to build a full set or nearly full set of gear. The meta switched to favor the few champs who could manage with no items and then other support champs were balanced to be able to function in that style meta as well.

If they go back to expecting supports to have a full item build then the scaling can go back to how it used to be and so they would scale in power as does every other role in the game.
 

Ravishing

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Another Riot post about S4 changes, none of it is new if you've kept up-to-date on what the pros have been saying:
An introduction to game flow changes this preseason : leagueoflegends

  • Dragon: The gold and experience rewards for slaying Dragon will now increase over time.
  • Baron: Baron buff is being shifted away from a team fighting bonus and towards more of a sieging bonus (think bonus movement speed or bonus damage to turrets)
  • Turrets: The team-wide gold for destroying turrets is going down, but the gold given to the players directly responsible for destroying turrets is going up.
  • Super Minions & Inhibitors: Downed inhibitors will no longer make all minions stronger. Instead, minions in lanes with downed inhibitors will now push harder than before, while minions in other lanes will be unaffected.
  • Bounty Calculations: ...we?re adding ?assist streaks,? where players who have far more assists than kills will get bonus gold per additional assist.
  • Minion and Jungle Spawn Timers: All minions and jungle camps will spawn earlier in the game.
  • Brush Changes: We?re cleaning up a lot of the L- and C-shaped brush formations so that players can gain vision of the entire brush with one ward.
 

The Ancient_sl

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Namely, a lot of supports are EXCELLENT team fighters if farmed.
Supports make excellentteamfighters if not farmed too that's pretty much what I'm saying. That's why they are supports, they showcase best in TEAM fights.

Shen also happens to be quite good at aram as well, so don't know what your'e smoking there.
Shen is an ARAM reroll. No strong poke, no good burst, a CC that requires you to build tanky to survive it and an ult that is completely neutered by the game's mechanics. The only good thing he has is being energy based. I suppose there are worse ARAM champs, but I picked him because he's so not shitty in Champion's Rift to highlight the fact it's a different game.