League Of Legends

Ravishing · Jun 17, 2018

Enzee said:
Yea, the genre needs some innovation. I was sorta surprised HotS didn't catch on more, but then I realized the things I liked about it is why it didn't. What I mean is, they made killing enemy champions not as important, by making map objectives stronger and having some champs better at those things while being horrible at dueling. I thought it was a good change, but people enjoy just killing each other in games.

I've had this idea of a game that's sorta like Smite/LoL combined. 4 of the people on the team don't have a mini map, but the 5th person does. The first 4 control their champs from a first person pov, while the 5th person doesn't have a champion, instead they have global abilities, play from a top down view and can see the minimap. They warn the other 4 of incoming ganks, cast support/buff spells, get vision, etc.. It would remove the 'support' champion that everyone hates and make a strategic commander position instead. That position also would have a lower apm/twitch reaction requirement by it's nature, while the other 4 would be have higher skill ceiling from a mechanical standpoint. Sorta how Overwatch made some characters that don't need amazing aim to be played decent.

I played the shit out of League, and I'd probably still play if time allowed, but the long games just don't work.
So now I'm doing FortNite, which has been fun as hell and games rarely ever go past 20 mins (for wins)... Getting killed early means games probably average around 7-10 mins.

I love the League lore, champs, etc. They do a good job.

Just need a reboot. Preferably make it more action packed.

Vimeseh · Jun 17, 2018

Ravishing said:
I played the shit out of League, and I'd probably still play if time allowed, but the long games just don't work.
So now I'm doing FortNite, which has been fun as hell and games rarely ever go past 20 mins (for wins)... Getting killed early means games probably average around 7-10 mins.

I love the League lore, champs, etc. They do a good job.

Just need a reboot. Preferably make it more action packed.

With the death of scaling adc's and the whole ap mage/bruiser bot thing going on now the average game length is about 25 minutes.

Amzin · Jun 18, 2018

I think you guys might be wrong in assuming that not being #1 means declining viewers or popularity - the Twitch audience has grown a lot, and some of the league games over the past week have surpassed numbers for last years LCS finals. Just because other games have a larger audience doesn't mean it's taking away from League in a meaningful way. Some people will get bored with it and move on, some people (like me) play it much less but still watch as much as ever, some new blood will come in, etc. Add that to the World Cup also going on and there's been nothing to indicate Riot needs "League 2" for viewership purposes

They've reinvented League as it is so many times, compared to most games. If you compare League now to League 2 years ago, or 4 years ago, or 6, or more, it's changed at least as much as going from CoD 1 -> 2 - >3 etc.

Side note since HotS was brought up... I didn't dislike it because of the structural changes, I think it does those things quite well, and addresses the "single map" problem a lot of MOBA-style games end up with in a novel and interesting way. I dislike HotS because it just doesn't feel that good to play. I think it's the engine, and somewhat the design direction - abilities have very little "oomph", your character doesn't have much feedback, combat, when it does happen, is the opposite of visceral. Compare to DotA or LoL where abilities and controlling your character has very distinctive feedback and feelings. HotS just feels incredibly neutered. If they could fix that, I would probably pick it up again.

Edit: To further compare, Blizzard's own Overwatch has succeeded as well as it has I feel in part to how nicely it gives you those sensations as you play. Great feedback from your actions, great feeling from controlling your character, combat can be noisy but everything is still distinctive and clear.

Ravishing · Jun 18, 2018

Amzin said:
I think you guys might be wrong in assuming that not being #1 means declining viewers or popularity - the Twitch audience has grown a lot, and some of the league games over the past week have surpassed numbers for last years LCS finals. Just because other games have a larger audience doesn't mean it's taking away from League in a meaningful way. Some people will get bored with it and move on, some people (like me) play it much less but still watch as much as ever, some new blood will come in, etc. Add that to the World Cup also going on and there's been nothing to indicate Riot needs "League 2" for viewership purposes

They've reinvented League as it is so many times, compared to most games. If you compare League now to League 2 years ago, or 4 years ago, or 6, or more, it's changed at least as much as going from CoD 1 -> 2 - >3 etc.

Side note since HotS was brought up... I didn't dislike it because of the structural changes, I think it does those things quite well, and addresses the "single map" problem a lot of MOBA-style games end up with in a novel and interesting way. I dislike HotS because it just doesn't feel that good to play. I think it's the engine, and somewhat the design direction - abilities have very little "oomph", your character doesn't have much feedback, combat, when it does happen, is the opposite of visceral. Compare to DotA or LoL where abilities and controlling your character has very distinctive feedback and feelings. HotS just feels incredibly neutered. If they could fix that, I would probably pick it up again.

Edit: To further compare, Blizzard's own Overwatch has succeeded as well as it has I feel in part to how nicely it gives you those sensations as you play. Great feedback from your actions, great feeling from controlling your character, combat can be noisy but everything is still distinctive and clear.

yes the esport scene is still growing for sure, even OW still has a strong competitive league, the viewership seems to always tune in during OWL but then the game is like 20th on twitch when there are no tournaments.

I watched the VODs of the TSM games at least.

Big issue LoL would face in making a #2 is that they've amassed so many champions that it would be a huge setback for a sequel to try and keep up.

LoL keeps adapting/changing, but there are also some problems...

They are not hesitant to make DRASTIC changes to the jungle, almost every season... however, they NEVER change the lanes.

What if lanes had different objectives or defenses then just turrets. What if you could "shut off" lane minions. Force your opponents into other lanes, etc... Add obstacles (a bridge over river that you could destroy/make impassable) etc...

Maybe it would change the game too much, idk...

In any case, League is still strong, it's been #1 forever and it is still the #1 esport. Maybe Fortnite dethrones it, maybe not... FortNite is #1 in players/twitch viewers, but their eSport scene is super-young/non-existent atm..

But what I'm seeing is that more esport games is actually helping everyone rather than hurting. So FN's success just means esports becomes even more mainstream, and other games will surely benefit as well.

Amzin · Jun 18, 2018

Fortnite will run into the same esports problem PUBG has - the game itself is a terrible format for esports. Counter-Strike and OW have reasonable esports scenes because, even though they're also shooters, they are team vs. team and way fewer players to manage. Any Battle Royale game is going to run into the problem of it sucks to spectate from an overall perspective, people like to watch their players play. Even League with all their custom built infrastructure is only dabbling in POV streams and even then only 1 per match or even per day, the networking demands are no joke.

Also, I honestly think the FN devs would be smart to not invest much in the esports scene, their immense popularity may mirror PUBG's and start to fall off as the next wave of BR games hit, if they just focus on the game itself they might be better off.

Ravishing · Jun 18, 2018

Amzin said:
Fortnite will run into the same esports problem PUBG has - the game itself is a terrible format for esports. Counter-Strike and OW have reasonable esports scenes because, even though they're also shooters, they are team vs. team and way fewer players to manage. Any Battle Royale game is going to run into the problem of it sucks to spectate from an overall perspective, people like to watch their players play. Even League with all their custom built infrastructure is only dabbling in POV streams and even then only 1 per match or even per day, the networking demands are no joke.

Also, I honestly think the FN devs would be smart to not invest much in the esports scene, their immense popularity may mirror PUBG's and start to fall off as the next wave of BR games hit, if they just focus on the game itself they might be better off.

I disagree. FN is insanely fun to watch. Mainly because Build Battles are semi-predictable and make things much CLOSER. Unlike PUBG where everything is long range gun fights/snipes/etc. FN has close-quarter action a vast majority of the time, which makes it a very viewer-friendly game.

Penance · Jun 18, 2018

This meta is hilarious. I still don't know if I love it or hate it. I know if I main'd ADC's I'd probably hate it. As a viewer I definitely love it. Meta is getting to the point like with DOTA, where lanes and roles are no longer set in stone. Now we can just assign a priority number to the person to indicate how much of the map he is going to take.

Like I said though, not sure how I feel about it completely yet. As a casual player it kind of sucks. I spend what little time I have trying to get used to a specific champ and role and it feels like every patch everything changes and I have to start from the bottom again.

Ravishing · Jun 18, 2018

Seems like a more fun meta that relies on player skill and less about champ select. Personally I think it's a better and healthier change, as long as they keep it this way.

Lasch · Jun 18, 2018

Shit, forgot to make a prediction post.
I liked that TSM brought up Grig. But, I don't see Grig as some sort of long term solution.
I'm hoping that sooner rather than later this season MikeYeung takes back the starter role with a better grasp on the role he needs to take with that roster.

I find it hilarious that the two 2-0 teams after week one were so different in their approach. TSM looked at all the changes to the meta and were like... nah. We're playing standard, bitches.
While Echo Fox looked at the changes and decided to take some mescaline while picking team comps.

And the C9 drama is fucking weird.

Vimeseh · Jun 18, 2018

Lasch said:
Shit, forgot to make a prediction post.
I liked that TSM brought up Grig. But, I don't see Grig as some sort of long term solution.
I'm hoping that sooner rather than later this season MikeYeung takes back the starter role with a better grasp on the role he needs to take with that roster.

I find it hilarious that the two 2-0 teams after week one were so different in their approach. TSM looked at all the changes to the meta and were like... nah. We're playing standard, bitches.
While Echo Fox looked at the changes and decided to take some mescaline while picking team comps.

And the C9 drama is fucking weird.

The C9 thing is a result of, and a good one I feel, franchising. Without the specter of relegation hanging over a teams head they can finally teach the players that they aren't more important then the team like in every other pro sport.

Enzee · Jun 18, 2018

Amzin said:
I think you guys might be wrong in assuming that not being #1 means declining viewers or popularity - the Twitch audience has grown a lot, and some of the league games over the past week have surpassed numbers for last years LCS finals.

Sure, if my point was only that how many views they get is 100% representative of how well a game is doing, then you would be correct. I was more referring to the fact that many people are like me (and others in this thread) who have started playing the game less (or quit entirely) but still watch some LCS.

I'm not saying LOL is going to die SOON. Even if I'm right, it'd take 10 years before it actually 'dies'. Look at SC1, it's still got an esports scene, even though blizz doesn't really make money off the game anymore. The game itself died imo, but the esport scene is alive. Blizz still supports it as a brand advertisement.

Franchising, first weekend of LCS return, etc.. can/has pushed up the numbers, too.

I still think they need to be working on a new game of some kind, league related or not, to diversify a bit. They shouldn't have all their eggs in the league basket. They did this with that board game they released, but I'd like to see them working on a new video game of some kind.

Also, re: them changing the game constantly. Yes, they have done this, and it has helped keep the game fresh. However, it also seems to be why some people have been leaving. Some long time players have the feeling of 'they've changed a bit too much, too many times' now when they give reasons for why they quit. So, if these constant changes aren't keeping all the long time players, are they helpful in bringing in new players? I don't see how they would be. It just makes that same steep learning curve, even steeper.

Arbitrary · Jun 18, 2018

EQ1 still puts out new expansions. League of Legends is going to be profitable to keep going until the sun burns out.

I quit a fair while ago (game was making me a bad person) but the speed at which the game changed is something that keeps me away. To do anything other than eat dirt I had to heavily specialize in a few champions doing a few specific things. For all the years I had been playing I was always on this constant search for champions that did the things I wanted them to do where I wanted them to do it and being able to buy the items I wanted to buy. Getting everything to line up for me required a non-trivial amount of effort and one patch could entirely negate my practice. Nothing was ever "safe" either. Everything I have ever specialized in has been hammered.

I've also never, ever liked how the live team does things. Their go-to move of "nerf champion until champion disappears, no other changes" got so fucking frustrating. I also found them impossible to predict and was thus unpleasantly and routinely surprised.

Vimeseh · Jun 18, 2018

Arbitrary said:
EQ1 still puts out new expansions. League of Legends is going to be profitable to keep going until the sun burns out.

I quit a fair while ago (game was making me a bad person) but the speed at which the game changed is something that keeps me away. To do anything other than eat dirt I had to heavily specialize in a few champions doing a few specific things. For all the years I had been playing I was always on this constant search for champions that did the things I wanted them to do where I wanted them to do it and being able to buy the items I wanted to buy. Getting everything to line up for me required a non-trivial amount of effort and one patch could entirely negate my practice. Nothing was ever "safe" either. Everything I have ever specialized in has been hammered.

I've also never, ever liked how the live team does things. Their go-to move of "nerf champion until champion disappears, no other changes" got so fucking frustrating. I also found them impossible to predict and was thus unpleasantly and routinely surprised.

I know that feel. I was finally really getting comfortable on ADC in the month prior to these recent patches because I like being able to play all roles at a decent level. Mostly so I can bounce to the current OP stuff as needed. To basically have all that practice dumpstered in one patch was a major kick in the balls, but its how the game is and I guess playing vlad or yasuo bot is fun too.

Enzee · Jun 18, 2018

Arbitrary said:
EQ1 still puts out new expansions. League of Legends is going to be profitable to keep going until the sun burns out.

If they constantly fire employees to keep up with their shrinking player population, sure. The game could exist, in some form, forever. But, if it's only got maybe 100k active players vs the millions it had a few years ago, that's still 'dead' in comparison.
If Riot wants to stay as big, or grow bigger, they need something drastic. Their normal changes and updates to League won't be enough to reverse the trend, imo.
From a company standpoint, if they want to grow bigger, they need another game. Maybe even a different genre so it doesn't take away from their League players as much.

Ravishing · Jun 19, 2018

Enzee said:
If they constantly fire employees to keep up with their shrinking player population, sure. The game could exist, in some form, forever. But, if it's only got maybe 100k active players vs the millions it had a few years ago, that's still 'dead' in comparison.
If Riot wants to stay as big, or grow bigger, they need something drastic. Their normal changes and updates to League won't be enough to reverse the trend, imo.
From a company standpoint, if they want to grow bigger, they need another game. Maybe even a different genre so it doesn't take away from their League players as much.

As a company, yes, they should make more games... They've built a big world, ashame it goes to waste in a MOBA... look at warcraft and how it turned into an MMO and a card game... and assets used in other games (HoTS).

As for LoL itself.. its not dying anytime soon.
And the infrastructure behind the LCS is too advanced to just abandon the game altogether..
Morphing the current game is their safest bet to ensure the entire LCS brand/infrastructure doesn't just collapse.

Of course, if they're brave enough, they could try creating another esport game (like a Battle Royale/FPS), and expand their LCS infrastructure to accommodate 2 games.

Amzin · Jun 19, 2018

Riot has been working on "at least" 1 non-LoL game for a couple years, according to them. They've even hired specifically for it a couple times. I think they'd be crazy not to put out League Lore related games of some kind, but I actually think they've teased that the thing they're working on (if it's only one thing) is not in the League universe.

Hell, ARPG market is ripe for some serious domination and it's practically a side-step from League into something Diabloish. I don't think they'll ever make another MOBA until League 2, if ever.

Needless · Jul 27, 2018

I started playing this last night because i was drunk and wanted to see how LoL made 'pudge'.

blitzcrank is pretty fun

BUT OH MY GOD

Pyke is actually THE sickest champion/hero in any moba

Ravishing · Jul 27, 2018

The Ryze cinematic is cool but for me it was missing something. Idk. It wasnt a cinematic I wanted to watch a 2nd time.. unlike the one a couple years ago with a bigger cast and more action.

And yea, I played a couple games the past few days just to mix it up a bit. Pyke seems insane.

(carried 1 with 14 kill Diana game, then lose a 4v5 with a fed Pyke on my team. Jungler afk'd at like 5 mins in)

Needless · Jul 31, 2018

Akali rework is today, she looks cool lol

Ravishing · Aug 14, 2018

Arbitrary said:
League will be forever dead to me when that day comes. Some of us geezers need characters where you just mouse over something and push a button and the thing happens.

I also secretly hope Top Lane Nunu will one day reappear. Nunu is the goddamn poster child for "if this character is ever good nerf this character."

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