League Of Legends

Vimeseh

Vimeseh

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From watching groups it felt like the biggest difference between NA/EU teams and their eastern counterparts was how they played team fights when gold values weren't swung hugely one way or another. The Koreans and to a lesser extent the Chinese function like well oiled machines when it comes down to fight time.
 
Enzee

Enzee

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Well, that's always been true of SKT and ROX, for sure, especially ROX this last year. Even compared to other korean teams. ROX could be 5k+ behind another team at 30 minutes, but win a team fight and cruise that to a win. Their cohesion and synergy together in a full 5v5 teamfight are amazing.
SKT is better at smaller fights (but still great at 5v5, second only to ROX) and the macro game. They are also very adaptable. If they are behind, they split push/take objectives/whatever.. till they see an opening to win or catch up. Plus, Faker is still a great player even if he's not at his peak anymore. Overall, SKT is a more flexible team then ROX, but if ROX gets an early lead (which they often do because peanut is an amazing jungler) they tend to win and even when they don't they often just win a big teamfight anyways.

I've occasionally seen TSM function as one unit in a 5v5 fight at Worlds, but it tended to only be when they were ahead and feeling good about themselves. If even a couple things don't go their way, they get down on themselves and start to second guess their actions it seems. Or, rather, everyone but bjerg does.

Overall, though, you are definitely right. The Korean teams, followed by the Chinese teams, have the best 5v5 teamfighting ability. H2K and TSM are the 'best' at 5v5s of the NA/EU teams, but they still aren't on the level of the koreans due to inconsistency. CLG has great macro, C9 has great skirmish ability, Splyce has a great.. idk, and G2 has great seats to watch the rest of worlds because they called 'dibs' early.
 
Sidian

Sidian

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c9 vs Samsung tonight in about 11 hours from this post. 6pm EST. Just a heads up in case people forgot.
 
Lasch

Lasch

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Enzee said:
I haven't been following professional league as much as I used to, but is doublelift suddenly a great shot caller? I thought it was bjergsen as the shot caller before, and now it's sort of split between him and doublelift, but that doublelift has never been an 'elite' shotcaller. On CLG, it was all aphromoo, and still is as far as I know.

From the games I watched, it still seems like their top/jungle is their weakest spots but that was mostly a factor of getting outpicked/banned in a few games. The jayce pick looked horrible, not sure if I can blame hauntzer for that though. He's been solid all year, but maybe just he fails under the pressure of worlds? Biofrost has impressed me for the most part, and doublelift still has some insane late game plays but his early game is 50/50 against elite competition. Sven had some great games at worlds when they won, but he also did poorly in their losses. Not sure if replacing him or having another year working together would be better.

It's hard to say what TSM needs to do, because it takes awhile playing together to really build your synergy, so replacing anyone (no matter how good they are) will be a setback for awhile. But, they need to do it sooner rather then later if that's what they end up doing, so they have a full year to get a feel for any new players. Huni/reignover come join TSM?!? I can dream..

CLG: huhi and xmithie need to go eventually. Darshan had a bad split, from what I heard, but he still showed up at worlds and is still very talented. I don't think he's their weakest link, unless he started losing interest during the split and isn't practicing as hard these days. I can see that, and therefore he didn't 'get' the meta during the last split as a result. But, I'd also be willing to give him another chance if I was the owner. He fits the style CLG likes to play and the team has been built around what he can do for a long time. Replacing him would drastically change how the team plays, and Aphromoo might not be comfortable with that style.

C9: Obviously, Meteos is the weakest player, mechanically/individually. Whether he adds something intangible to the team, similar to what Hai did, is the only factor I'm not sure of. C9 is a very odd team, on their best days they look like they can beat anyone easily. In their bad games, they look like a challenger team. Whatever they need to do to get the 'good' C9 to show up more consistently is what they need, but who knows what that is exactly.
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Doublelift isn't an elite shotcaller, but he was TSM's earlygame shotcaller, where they were best. Admittedly on this patch without laneswaps, there is almost no shotcalling involved. TSM can't put all shotcalling back on Bjergsen. And the support should be the shotcaller, but there is no way biofrost can take that mantle.

Yeah, Sven and his playstyle is very binary. And week 1, he looked like the best player in group D even in the loss. Week 2? Meh.
huni/reignover would admittedly be the dream. but i refuse to get my hopes up.



This c9/ssg series is depressing me all over again. I wish meteos could play lee sin.
 
Sidian

Sidian

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HOLY SHIT I CAN'T BELIEVE...

c9 is sucking ass. I'm still hoping for the reverse sweep but good lord samsung is completely outclassing them
 
Sidian

Sidian

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wow, c9 man, that reverse sweep!!!

...might have been the worst quarter finals series I"ve seen. Why the fuck did they go Jayce? Unless your whole team gets so far ahead and groups early I swear Jayce blows. Why not go Gnar? Or Poppy? Or even pull out a Lissandra? Impact was constantly ahead in CS but as Jayce it doesn't matter when the rest of your team blows. Also, wtf sneaky/smoothie. They were like 1/30 in the whole series. Really bad.
 
Gilgamel

Gilgamel

A Man Chooses....
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Plat II at the moment. Trying to decide if I have it in me to try and push for diamond.

These quarters seem so lopsided.
 
Sidian

Sidian

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game 1 of skt vs rng was pretty damn good.

The enjoyment from that one game alone is better then the entire series between c9 & ssg.
 
Warrik

Warrik

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I can't believe RNG let Faker have Syndra. That was pretty much surrendering the lane in champ select.
 
Teekey

Teekey

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I've stopped watching since NA teams lost. I appreciate the skill of the Asian teams, I just have no interest in watching them play against each other. It's been the same shit for a years now. It's just boring (from a Western fan perspective).
 
Enzee

Enzee

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Monte had 'monte's musings' video recently about TSM/NA that explained the situation really well, and why TSM dominated the last split.

So, normally a large amount of income for NA teams comes from their streaming. They get some sponsorships and income from Riot now as well, but their streaming is a larger portion of their income in comparison to Korean teams. In Korea, the teams are sponsored by large corporations that want them to win more then anything as exposure for their brand. The corporation pays the bills and they want the team to win as much as possible, so that's the focus.

This last split, Doublelift and Bjergsen both streamed quite a bit less then they normally would, with Reginald's approval. The team made a conscious decision to focus on winning, scrimming and practicing more often then any team, plus hiring Weldon to be in house permanently. It's not something they can normally keep doing, as they rely on that income to make the team profitable. Maybe that has changed for TSM at least, and hopefully this is a sign of things changing for NA as a whole.

Now, Riot is starting to help fix this by sharing the income from skins/icons/etc.. with the teams, but they still aren't on the level of Korea where that is enough to support the team by itself. Possibly it will start to level the playing field, but this was the first split where a big team like that could feasibly afford to focus on winning that much.
 
Sidian

Sidian

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H2K vs ANX tonight! It is pretty crazy it's 3 korea teams in the final 4 so far but you can't tell me you guys aren't excited for SKT vs ROX (rematch of last finals) so that is going to be epic and then we're either going to get an EU or a Wildcard in the last quarter finals slot and going against Samsung is probably the "easier" of the Korean teams.

Sure I wish there were more NA/EU teams because it's kind of lame doing interviews and having to translate and I'd rather cheer for NA/EU teams but the games will still be top level and could turn out to be some of the best league games ever.
 
Teekey

Teekey

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Enzee said:
The team made a conscious decision to focus on winning, scrimming and practicing more often then any team, plus hiring Weldon to be in house permanently. It's not something they can normally keep doing, as they rely on that income to make the team profitable. Maybe that has changed for TSM at least, and hopefully this is a sign of things changing for NA as a whole.
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This is exactly why I think I'm done watching pro-league - because I think this is going to push Western teams to be less serious about the game, and just focus on making money streaming. Pretty sure even the TSM coach said this was a trial, and that if it didn't work they weren't going to push the players like this again.

They practiced like Koreans and have little to show for it.
 
Enzee

Enzee

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Teekey said:
This is exactly why I think I'm done watching pro-league - because I think this is going to push Western teams to be less serious about the game, and just focus on making money streaming. Pretty sure even the TSM coach said this was a trial, and that if it didn't work they weren't going to push the players like this again.

They practiced like Koreans and have little to show for it.
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Yes and no. If riot's plans dont make them enough money, then yea possibly. Or, the most popular teams wont focus on winning, since they can make more from streaming, but an up and coming team will have to in order to sell their team icons and such.

In other words, teams like TSM with super popular streamers might be in the same boat for awhile, but NA as a whole may close some of the gap between them and korea.
On the other hand, reginald wants to win worlds so badly he may keep it up for another split or two if the other sources of income are increasing.
Also, c9 making it out of groups is first time an NA team did that, right? Other then the first year or two, before korea became a powerhouse, anyway.

Edit: oh and i wouldnt say TSM has nothing to show for it, they were practically winless against korean teams at worlds before and came 1 game away from making it out of groups. Thats definitely progress. One more split of this same team practicing together might get them to quarters/semis imo.
 
Sidian

Sidian

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H2K vs ANX
Not sure if H2K just looked completely godlike or if ANX just looked like your normal typical wildcard team...

Either way, Oda on Jayce was amazing. Jankos on Lee was amazing. I hope they can bring that type of gameplay with them to Samsung. I still don't get why ANX didn't try banning/first picking the jayce or the lee to actually make H2K try something else. Or why after 2 games, ANX wouldn't just switch it up and try some different champions instead of the same old same old.
 
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