Lost Ark Online

Agree. 8 players is low enough that everyone should be expected to know their class and the fight mechanics in and out. People who don't feel that way (will) have plenty of other content to participate in. The more difficult raid rewards are mostly prestige as well so it's not like the masses miss out on something. Those of you who don't want to do the gear score grind and just do hard raids will get to thanks to normalization though I imagine if you're hardcore enough to do hard raiding you will be hardcore enough to keep high gear score regardless.

Still firmly believe if you plan on playing this game long term and you aren't setting up for it now while we have this breather (aka dumb content release cadence) then you're just going to get more and more jaded as the game goes on. You will never hit 1600+, you'll never hit 1500+, you'll never have enough of any resource to feel like you're making meaningful progress and I say this as someone who is a hardcore player, but smart enough to play at my own pace. I doubt I'll even push one of my chars to 1415 by Valtan release, but I will have 9 chars at 1370+ which guarantees a massive material and silver income
and aside from abyssal/raid resets needs <1 hour tops a day on rested schedule rotation so it's not even like I'm playing the game like a second job.

I play/played with a lot of you so I know a bunch of you had half a dozen+ shitter alts in other MMOs that are/were less valuable than they are in this game so I don't even get why there is such a fuss about it here when you can pay to skip most of mundane shit via in game currency or wallet if you want to swipe.

Gravel said:

That's a good point. I mentioned in game yesterday how it felt bad that there were glavier's already at my ilvl. Maybe they saved a shit ton of mats, but either way, the class released 4 days prior. That's kind of shit.

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Why is it pretty shit? You have had the ability to earn higher level accessories/materials so on and so forth on that character for however long. I could go into a GDKP in WoW classic and get my fresh char that I boosted in 24 hours to cap and get decked out. I could go into any raids in WoW retail and pay for loot. I could go into EQ and buy an entire set of anything after boosting my char to max in 1 day. I could go into GW2 and buy my legendary. I could go into...literally any MMO and do the same shit. Boost/PL a newly released character and then buying gear has never ever not been a thing in any single MMO.

Pyros said:

Some mmos push it even further, in FFXIV, the moment a new raid tier is released, you can get a set of fully crafted gear(or craft it yourself) day1 that's better than the previous tier of raiding. They literally completely invalidate all raiding progress every tier(which is about every 8months) and people still like it cause it means you can switch classes when you want, or take a break and come back and not be gated out of content. If anything it's A LOT easier to do that in XIV than it is in Lost Ark or most mmos. There's still incentives to doing the raid stuff though, mounts, glamours(transmog/skins on raiding gear in XIV terms) and just clearing the raid because it's fun by itself.

Anyone who decked out a lance master on release day was either massively stockpiling mats they could have used on their main to get further ahead, or whaled which can happen at any point regardless. So yeah don't know why someone would get annoyed at that, some people will have stronger characters than you from either playing more or spending more, regardless of the class. I can somewhat see the point of the current events being easier and shit so people don't have to "suffer" through T1/T2 anymore, but that's gonna be a trend going on and it's a general mmo trend besides some of the really old school shit like EQ. In a modern mmos it's inconceivable to tell people they have to go through months of gearing process to catch up. Imagine you take a break but in 6months you start playing again and now you're 6months behind, how would you ever catch up if they didn't have this sort of things. So yeah starting 2months later it's easier to progress but you're still 2 months behind on everything else, have to do reps, have to farm island tokens, have to farm giant hearts and all that shit. It also makes these "new" classes not a complete pita to play in current content.

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Every game does this - man i was like in top 10 rogues dps wise in wow in vanilla then TBC came out and all my work getting HWL, and raiding 4 hours a day went away with new shit. I personally didnt experience shit like that in EQ1 or EQ2 - it happened but gradually but in WoW TBC day 1 my shit was common. I get how people feel when all your work is gone and you paid money for the xpac that made it happen but its just how things are now.

Honing feels bad because of the failures. The frequency doesn’t matter - if I grind materials, hit the button, and it eats my mats and says try again…that feels bad. It’s an arbitrary system of which the player has little agency to control beyond failure chance reduction materials (which unto themselves can be hard to get)

Cybsled said:

Honing feels bad because of the failures. The frequency doesn’t matter - if I grind materials, hit the button, and it eats my mats and says try again…that feels bad. It’s an arbitrary system of which the player has little agency to control beyond failure chance reduction materials (which unto themselves can be hard to get)

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What's the solution here for your loot woes then? What do you do when the loot piece you want never drops in a different MMO? Bitch at officers for it not dropping? Stop raiding? Badges or whatever that guarantee eventual loot you can choose?

Honing let's you earn the +gooder gear eventually at a speed dictated by your roster crew. No competition, no praying it drops, you win after a certain amount of failures no matter what and looking at it as failures is technically wrong. You are gaining progress every tap towards finishing that piece. If you feel bad about it then I don't know what to tell you. Stop looking for dopamine hits or taking video game RNG so personal.

Across 20+ years of MMO I have only had full bis in the current era we were raiding 1 single time and I didn't even get it from weekly main raiding. I happen to sit or something that week and ran a GDKP instead. Booze loaned me the gold to pay a premium on my last piece and viola I had bis gear once in era. Literally half a lifetime of MMO gaming to reach it once. Still never thought any of it unfair as RNG is RNG and only so much loot to spread around. By comparison in Lost Ark I will get all of it done at a speed dictated by my roster crew. I am guaranteed an eventual pay off for my time spent which cannot be said for any MMO that I know of that's still popular today.

Again you don't even have to have perfect gear or anything to do the "best" content either. All normalized.

BoozeCube said:

You keep making this assertion yet nobody anywhere who fought Argos has claimed it was hard. People complained because they couldn't even fucking queue for the content. Even in the forum guild with people who were playing hours upon hours daily only like 2-3 people were even able to do Argos week one. This shit you are hyperventilating about just flat out isn't true.

People complained because the only way to reach the gear levels at the time was pretty much swipe a credit card or be an already experienced player who min/maxxed from the head start. Even Amazon had to come out and admit they fucked up.

This complaint about difficulty is all in your head.

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Got my bard to 1385 today, so now caught up with my blade who becomes my alt.

Unfortunately I've had a hell of a time with p2 Argos. Pugs just aren't good, and as a bard it's super frustrating because every time they die I feel like it's my fault, but the reality is they're just eating tons of attacks. Plus I get complimented on almost every abyss or guardian, so I'm assuming I'm not bad at supporting.

I guess technically I could try a p3 group and hope that since p3 is apparently easier that they'll roll through p2 (hopefully). But having never done p3 it's intimidating to try, especially when you're rolling into it under leveled.

Biggest downside of changing mains is my blade is sitting on like 350 greaters and my bard is completely out. Don't want to burn through a bunch of mats either since I think when I do finally get a good amount of greaters I'd regret it. Blew through a bunch getting my alts from 1325 to 1340 and 1310 to 1325. Down to about 3k of each mat.

Oh, and I'm sad because I ended up with a 7/5/3 stone. Was so damn close. And support stuff is retardo expensive.

wormie said:

Aren't loot drop rates similar though? Why is the randomness of honing worse than that?

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Because the game has both drops and honing, and psychologically honing feels worse

Honing just gives you +gooder and eventually unlocks content. Stuff like skill books and jewelry comes down to drop RNG.

The problem with late honing is you put in lots of time to get together enough various materials, press a button, and hope you don’t get a whammy. You put in time + resources and have a high chance to get nothing

With regular loot drops, yes RNG comes into play, but you just get the item if it drops (or you add a badge system to prevent super unlucky streaks, or some other forgiveness mechanic)

Honing has a very light forgiveness mechanic, so that fails feel more punishing that rewarding. Getting a 3% bonus on your next roll sucks if you have a base success chance of 30%. You can visualize the failure chances more, whereas with standard loot drops, you’re employing a more “lucky loot box” model. Loot still drops, it just not might be what you want.

Pyros said:

Personally as someone who often takes breaks, I'd say it's a big plus. That's one reason I like XIV, I can always pick it up at any point, and be geared to clear all content in like an hour top. I cleared savage this tier but I don't feel bad knowing people will clear it next tier by rolling their face on their keyboards through a lot of mechanics because of the higher DPS, or that the gear I got from it is mostly worthless, some of it looks cool and I did it cause I felt like doing it at the time, if I didn't like it I wouldn't do it.

And Lost Ark is no exception, once I inevitably stop playing, I'll be happy to know that when I come back to play again, like say when they release summoner or artist or female zerk or whatever, I won't be months behind in progress. Weeks sure and I'll be behind on gold and alt levels and stuff like that, but I'll be able to boost through some of the content using stuff like honing rate buffs and events to just be able to start playing the game again from a point where it's relevant, rather than have to spend 2months farming Argos then Valtan before I can get anywhere. There's still a degree of progression as it doesn't invalidate things as fast in this but still.

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It's a trade-off but I agree with this 100% as opposed to those that prefer gear to last forever and be difficult to catch up. I have enough gold right now where I could quit until Valtan is released and log in day 1 to being higher ilvl than everyone (and I don't see anything wrong with that). There's plenty of nuisance progression I'd be behind on though, which is fine by me. Janx nailed it when he said that he felt like the carrot was the bosses rather than the loot. The enjoyable aspect of Lost Ark is the combat / characters and encounters to come --- it's not in the uber loot (albeit there's lots of that out there, especially with relic accessories). 99% of people don't even have there legendary engravings --- that is player power.

Kirun said:

One mistake I notice a LOT of players make in Lost Ark is that they think they need 100% DPS "uptime" on a guardian, abyssal, raid, etc. Worry about avoiding/doing the mechanics first and foremost, THEN worry about DPS. Literally every boss, guardian, etc. has "dps windows" where they're just kind of sitting around, finger popping their assholes. Now, sometimes they are spitting out unavoidable damage during these periods, but there's nothing really there for you to "avoid", per se. That's when you bust your load. Then, do the "mini-game" of avoiding shit, standing in the circle, what the fuck ever, rinse and repeat.

I don't know if it's the isometric view or what, but too many people treat the combat/gameplay in this game like an ARPG rather than a traditional MMO. They think you're just supposed to spam the fuck out of abilities while running around like a spaz, almost like they're rifting in D3 or mapping in Path of Exile. Start treating it like a traditional MMO but with a different camera angle and you'll probably get a lot more MVPs. Be a lot more "tactical" about when you DPS, use your big hitting abilities, etc.

Did you pop your trinkets every single time they were up? Or did you have to occasionally save them for the "burn phase" on a boss, or a certain add, etc. in WoW? What about when you popped defensive on your warrior in EQ? Did you do that right away or when you knew enrage was coming? Start thinking in those terms more in Lost Ark.

You can hone once a week. It's called self-control. The game shouldn't have to hold your hand because you can't exercise it.

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This is good advice.

Gravel said:

Got my bard to 1385 today, so now caught up with my blade who becomes my alt.

Unfortunately I've had a hell of a time with p2 Argos. Pugs just aren't good, and as a bard it's super frustrating because every time they die I feel like it's my fault, but the reality is they're just eating tons of attacks. Plus I get complimented on almost every abyss or guardian, so I'm assuming I'm not bad at supporting.

I guess technically I could try a p3 group and hope that since p3 is apparently easier that they'll roll through p2 (hopefully). But having never done p3 it's intimidating to try, especially when you're rolling into it under leveled.

Biggest downside of changing mains is my blade is sitting on like 350 greaters and my bard is completely out. Don't want to burn through a bunch of mats either since I think when I do finally get a good amount of greaters I'd regret it. Blew through a bunch getting my alts from 1325 to 1340 and 1310 to 1325. Down to about 3k of each mat.

Oh, and I'm sad because I ended up with a 7/5/3 stone. Was so damn close. And support stuff is retardo expensive.

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Grats dude! Happy to see you catch up on your bard. Plenty of time till Valtan though to hit 1415 and your alts (including the blade) will provide a lot of benefits for side runs to keep things interesting. Really happy to see our roster shape up on supports for Valtan (I was nervous for a minute there!). The prices on support shit is insane though, I had an Expert / Awakening sell for more than most Grudge / KBW's ones would. Strange world we live in...

Chimney said:

What's the solution here for your loot woes then? What do you do when the loot piece you want never drops in a different MMO? Bitch at officers for it not dropping? Stop raiding? Badges or whatever that guarantee eventual loot you can choose?

Honing let's you earn the +gooder gear eventually earn it at a speed dictated by your roster crew. No competition, no praying it drops, you win after a certain amount of failures no matter what and looking at it as failures is technically wrong. You are gaining progress every tap towards finishing that piece. If you feel bad about it then I don't know what to tell you. Stop looking for dopamine hits or taking video game RNG so personal.

Across 20+ years of MMO I have only had full bis in the current era we were raiding 1 single time and I didn't even get it from weekly main raiding. I happen to sit or something that week and ran a GDKP instead. Booze loaned me the gold to pay a premium on my last piece and viola I had bis gear once in era. Literally half a lifetime of MMO gaming to reach it once. Still never though any of it unfair as RNG is RNG and only so much loot to spread around. By comparison in Lost Ark I will get all of it done at a speed dictated by my roster crew. I am guaranteed an eventual pay off for my time spent which cannot be said for any MMO that I know of that's still popular today.

Again you don't even have to have perfect gear or anything to do the "best" content either. All normalized.

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It's a different style of loot, which turns off a lot of people. I feel like coming from a traditional MMO (e.g. WoW) those that were motivated by loot get turned away by Lost Ark. There is something to be said about getting an ultra rare trinket that takes 40 weeks to drop. Lost Ark doesn't have this, instead, similar to it's content, you're mostly equalized with an RNG sprinkle tossed in there fyi honing. Essentially they let you play 'did the boss drop my item upgrade' every day/week. Instead of it being a boss that has a 10% chance to drop what you want though, it's your honing with a psychological feels bad giant red X when you don't get your drop. Some fuckers end up playing a class where everything seems to drop (honing RNG Gods!) and others are stuck getting shit luck, just like every single MMO in the history of time. It all even's out though and provided they don't pull another Argos, I don't really get the complaint since you're still able to focus and do the stuff that the game is actually better at than every.single.game.in.the.industry.by.far. While that might be a subjective opinion, I think if you play the legion raids and don't enjoy the encounters on any classes, you're fucked in the head.

Put in a different way: Lost Ark does not use it's development time into gear. They put it into encounter design & class design. Thus if you get your thrill via getting that trinket and not in learning a complex fight and beating it, this is a terrible game for you. The ultra rare drops are still there (via accessories with a perfect roll / legendary engraving books) but they're not restricted so that only you can get them. Some fucker who made a lot of Gold playing the system (e.g. me) or someone who swipes for gold will be able to get these. You still get your regular old loot via honing upgrades but really, that's always been boring - they've just made it more boring via a honing window to remove the disguise of what other MMOs do. Legion Commanders will offer a bit of an added caveat to that with relic gear / set bonuses but the principal will remain the same.

Oh, another thing that's kind of a minor annoyance with their design (not sure if *actually* matters in any way), but if you change your main like I'm doing, there's no good way to change which character is in the "main" guild versus "alt" guild. Since there's such a long lockout, I'd be giving up a bunch of stuff to switch them.

Like I said, I don't think it actually matters, but just a stupid design choice.

Does anyone pay attention to the tripod hero's crap for market sales? I just sold a +3 to all skill for 2k but it used none of the normal skills for shock or taijutsu for raid or any other spec that I could find. It sold near instantly so I feel like I fucked up listing it cheap, but I don't normally pay any attention to that market as I just dismantle anything not on my list. Some secret market I don't know about or just some random that saw triple 3 and thought it was worth buying regardless of skills?