Lost Ark Online

Raes

Vyemm Raider
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Yeah I could see that, and I hope that's the case - amped to try Sorc on RU as soon as that drops... though I would think we'll be swamped with Sorc players on live in NA

Well, this is NA and it's a female gender locked class. On the other hand it's the only traditional caster class. Also, the launch version of classes tend to be somewhat OP out the gate, but the average player probably doesn't know that. I think we'll have more Paladins and Strikers at the start.

And, yeah, I'm gonna be deleting my Soulfist so I can try out Sorc in RU. Looks pretty fun.
 

Voldeth

Trakanon Raider
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February 11th release date (thus early access is February 8th).

 
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Delly

Trakanon Raider
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Lost Ark's director was on last night talking about updates coming to the game and there is a crazy amount of stuff.

New specialist class Painter/Arist -


Mini-game islands being added -


Female berserker announced -

female berserker.png


Stolen summary from reddit -

  • No more fully equalized hell mode. They will still equalize iLevel (and potentially other stuff), but things like tripods/engravings/etc will no longer be invalid.
  • Focus on class balance in 2022, specifically on bringing up underperforming classes/builds
  • For PvP they will balance stat effects and equalize cc duration. No more 21:9 angle? (or something related to equalizing camera angle at least)
  • Restricting number of raid runs per account to cut down on extreme cases of gold generation (specifically mentioned too many people running stuff like Argos 7+ times). Inflation hurts F2P most. Adding more gold sinks to address, specifically they will shift end of dungeon/raid rewards from costing crystals to costing gold
  • Better hard/hell mode rewards for legion raids. Stuff like mounts/exclusive avatars
  • Optimization/clarity around back/front attacks. New icons. Balancing set/engraving effects to not be weighted so heavily towards this
  • Lots of QoL improvements. Streamlining and adding in-game tracking of dailies/weeklies among many other things
  • Moving to DirectX 11 next week. 1.5x fps improvements in many areas and better load times
  • Two new classes (under Specialist main class). Artist support class (releasing in Jan 2022) and damage dealing class which uses weather effects
  • Realm v realm continent called Rowen out December 29th (viking themed).
  • 2nd new continent called Elgacia. New abyss dungeon, story, exploration, guardian raid, and legion raid (but shorter, only 2 stages). It seems that this will be rolled out in/after summer of 2022
  • 3rd new continent called Plecia exploring Arman's past. Mainly story
  • 4th new continent called Voldis? Maybe 2922 maybe after. Lots of story but also some raid, etc content
  • Going through older classes and updating skill animations to be in line with newer. Some skill updates/replacements as well for balance reasons
  • 3rd awakening. Not a choice between 1st/2nd/3rd but an entirely new guage for each class. Must be built up and can only be used once (?) per instance
  • Wants to develop events/content that is geared towards fun and less hardcore than just endgame raids introducing crazy new mechanic after new mechanic. More replayability. Games within a game. (seems like he's talking about introducing mini games, etc)
  1. New type of PvP not based around current fighting mechanics (seems like a PvPvE MOBA)
  2. Oh shit also a Battle Royal like mode
  3. Also some kind of mario party esque board game with mini-games
  4. Also tower defense?
  • More relationship levels for certain npcs
  • More festivals and housing related things to promote interaction between players (can visit across servers). Players can host their own events? Expansion of estate and new indoor housing to display achievements
  • New pro PvP league in KR

 

Brahma

Obi-Bro Kenobi-X
11,952
42,302
Lost Ark's director was on last night talking about updates coming to the game and there is a crazy amount of stuff.

New specialist class Painter/Arist -


Mini-game islands being added -


Female berserker announced -

View attachment 388553

Stolen summary from reddit -

  • No more fully equalized hell mode. They will still equalize iLevel (and potentially other stuff), but things like tripods/engravings/etc will no longer be invalid.
  • Focus on class balance in 2022, specifically on bringing up underperforming classes/builds
  • For PvP they will balance stat effects and equalize cc duration. No more 21:9 angle? (or something related to equalizing camera angle at least)
  • Restricting number of raid runs per account to cut down on extreme cases of gold generation (specifically mentioned too many people running stuff like Argos 7+ times). Inflation hurts F2P most. Adding more gold sinks to address, specifically they will shift end of dungeon/raid rewards from costing crystals to costing gold
  • Better hard/hell mode rewards for legion raids. Stuff like mounts/exclusive avatars
  • Optimization/clarity around back/front attacks. New icons. Balancing set/engraving effects to not be weighted so heavily towards this
  • Lots of QoL improvements. Streamlining and adding in-game tracking of dailies/weeklies among many other things
  • Moving to DirectX 11 next week. 1.5x fps improvements in many areas and better load times
  • Two new classes (under Specialist main class). Artist support class (releasing in Jan 2022) and damage dealing class which uses weather effects
  • Realm v realm continent called Rowen out December 29th (viking themed).
  • 2nd new continent called Elgacia. New abyss dungeon, story, exploration, guardian raid, and legion raid (but shorter, only 2 stages). It seems that this will be rolled out in/after summer of 2022
  • 3rd new continent called Plecia exploring Arman's past. Mainly story
  • 4th new continent called Voldis? Maybe 2922 maybe after. Lots of story but also some raid, etc content
  • Going through older classes and updating skill animations to be in line with newer. Some skill updates/replacements as well for balance reasons
  • 3rd awakening. Not a choice between 1st/2nd/3rd but an entirely new guage for each class. Must be built up and can only be used once (?) per instance
  • Wants to develop events/content that is geared towards fun and less hardcore than just endgame raids introducing crazy new mechanic after new mechanic. More replayability. Games within a game. (seems like he's talking about introducing mini games, etc)
  1. New type of PvP not based around current fighting mechanics (seems like a PvPvE MOBA)
  2. Oh shit also a Battle Royal like mode
  3. Also some kind of mario party esque board game with mini-games
  4. Also tower defense?
  • More relationship levels for certain npcs
  • More festivals and housing related things to promote interaction between players (can visit across servers). Players can host their own events? Expansion of estate and new indoor housing to display achievements
  • New pro PvP league in KR

Love The Artists style...
 

Chimney

Trakanon Raider
1,652
1,167
I am getting stuck at a week long work convention during this launch.

I hope the hotel has some sick wifi.
 
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Cinge

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
7,015
2,081
The skill graphics on that painter class are top notch. I do hope there is more then the black or very dark blue color to all of them. Would match painting more, since almost all of that looked like splats of ink. The first couple looked like strokes of a paintbrush at least.

Edit: Oh the artist is support, that's interesting. Really curious how they do the weather effect class too. Be cool to see things like fog, snow, a flood and such, instead of just say ice/lightning.
 
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Raes

Vyemm Raider
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2,717
  • Moving to DirectX 11 next week. 1.5x fps improvements in many areas and better load times
Yessssss. Was wondering when they'd get around to this.

Wants to develop events/content that is geared towards fun and less hardcore than just endgame raids introducing crazy new mechanic after new mechanic.

Finally. Hope it's good. My GS is currently stuck unless I want to try and play DDR with high ping+pugs.
 
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Springbok

Karen
<Gold Donor>
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Think they see FF14 and the multitude of end game stuff (gambling, fashion, rp, whatever other weeb shit people like) and see what could be done here outside of brutal raiding. I’m excited to see what shakes loose. Sorceress in a few days on RU too
 

Cinge

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
7,015
2,081
Think they see FF14 and the multitude of end game stuff (gambling, fashion, rp, whatever other weeb shit people like) and see what could be done here outside of brutal raiding. I’m excited to see what shakes loose. Sorceress in a few days on RU too

Non-combat content is an important thing imo. Shouldn't always be about just progressing your character's power. Things like mini games, fashion, even farming mounts/pets, cosmetics etc, really help you not burn out and usually extend the life of the game. Draws more people to your game also.

Only issue these days, and maybe more so for a f2p game, is a lot of those things are added to a store instead of being able to aquire them via in-game content.
 
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Pyros

<Silver Donator>
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Non-combat content is an important thing imo. Shouldn't always be about just progressing your character's power. Things like mini games, fashion, even farming mounts/pets, cosmetics etc, really help you not burn out and usually extend the life of the game. Draws more people to your game also.

Only issue these days, and maybe more so for a f2p game, is a lot of those things are added to a store instead of being able to aquire them via in-game content.
That or they're necessary grinds so you get sick of it 1week in but you still have to farm the stupid minigame for months. This shit should be cosmetic rewards and stuff, with maybe catchup mechanics at best(so you don't have to do them if you're current).
 

Neranja

<Bronze Donator>
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Shouldn't always be about just progressing your character's power.
It warms my heart that current developers, especially Korean ones, are rediscovering that players don't want to treat their game as a second job.
 

Raes

Vyemm Raider
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2,717
It warms my heart that current developers, especially Korean ones, are rediscovering that players don't want to treat their game as a second job.

Except it's not about that. LA already limits how much time you can actually spend playing the game. Which, of course, is extended by alts, but now they want to put some limits on that as well. If these new activities offer decent rewards (like currency, or upgrade mats) then they'll be just as required as the current shit if you want to increase your GS. So, more like a second job, not less. If they don't offer rewards or the rewards aren't worth the time, then hardly anyone will bother and it's just a waste of dev time to add useless fluff.

I don't really care for minigames, I play games to play as my character(s), so I hope they are just different gameplay modes, and offer an alternative to the ridiculous raiding:

 

Neranja

<Bronze Donator>
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if you want to increase your GS. So, more like a second job, not less. If they don't offer rewards or the rewards aren't worth the time, then hardly anyone will bother and it's just a waste of dev time to add useless fluff.
... and you instantly make it about "increase your GS", and "offer rewards", and "the rewards aren't worth the time, then hardly anyone will bother" and "waste of dev time."

This is a serious problem with modern, data-centric game design: The design and development process is ultimately driven by metrics, and only by metrics. But those numbers, like a map, don't reflect reality, and human behavior is rarely that simple and monocausal. If you optimize your content to what most people in your game actually engage with, then you end up with current WoW, the fantasy looter shooter: wizard chores, making numbers bigger and daily dungeon and weekly raid lockouts, and not much else.

And as soon as that content runs out players are disillusioned, because there are no other aspects of the game holding them in the game anymore. This is especially true for the social aspects. Compare that to FFXIV, where almost every WoW refugee was told "do the MSQ and not much else." But somehow a lot of players end up in the Gold Saucer and go off to do triple triad, Chocobo racing or jumping games.

I don't really care for minigames, I play games to play as my character(s), so I hope they are just different gameplay modes, and offer an alternative to the ridiculous raiding:
That's great and all, but don't make the game only about yourself and players like you, or the game ends up with only players like you. That's the open world PvP conundrum: most open world PvP players want the victory, not the challenge. The wolves want sheep and don't care about the grass, but if you don't have grass there will be no sheep.

Have you ever heard about Bartle's taxonomy of player types, and the subsequent iterations on that theory? Have you ever heard about Raph Koster, and his book?
 

Raes

Vyemm Raider
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2,717
Have you ever heard about Bartle's taxonomy of player types, and the subsequent iterations on that theory? Have you ever heard about Raph Koster, and his book?

No, never heard of em. I'm 9. I wasn't actually playing MUDs when Bartle wrote that article. /s

I would argue that most of the players in FF who play those minigames are doing them for the rewards, and not because they are particularly fun (except triple triad) but, there's no way for either of us to prove it, so no point.

I've been playing Lost Ark for over 2 years, through several iterations. I have a feel for the devs and the kind of shit they do. There are other areas they need to focus on, and they do sometimes make really good decisions. I want the game to have more depth/breadth, and fewer hard limits. The last thing it needs is a board game. Now, something like horse breeding? That isn't tied to the cash shop? Bring it. But, that's the problem. The core of the game is designed around the cash shop. Sure, the game could use some content besides the silly raids, and grindy side shit that's already there. But, minigames where you don't play as your character? What the hell are they going to create that's better than 1000 other minigames I can get on my phone? Basically, more activities? Yes. That involve actually playing the game. And, really, what the game needs is some medium (with hard mode) group dungeons at endgame. Some group content that's fun and challenging. Like all those leveling dungeons (that are faceroll easy and can be soloed) that you never see again when you hit level 50. The most recent non-raid content they added was, wait for it...a really long tunnel of mobs. LIT-ER-ALY.

Plus, they had a bunch of minigames at launch, all that dumb ocean content, that they completely removed. Wonder why?

The way you describe WoW, that is what LA is right now. Only worse. Adding minigames "just for fun" isn't going to change that. The game's strength are the classes and combat. The rest is not that good. The issue they are trying to fix is one they made themselves. All these daily/weekly hard limits. People log in, do everything they can in a short amount of time and have no reason to stick around. Sure, adding fluff games will keep some people logged in more/longer, but not a significant number.

I talk about upping my GS because that's all there is. That's the way they designed the game, so they could make their money off the cash shop. It's Korean MMO 101. I mean, there's costumes, got em, on all 8 of my toons, and sitting on 100k gold so I can buy the Sorc one off the AH tomorrow night. Got a dozen mounts and half a dozen pets. If they add minigames, there has to be some reward. So, if not upgrade mats/gold, then what? Some new currency, to buy...cosmetics? Mounts? Pets? Lollipop hats? They already give that shit away for free.

Every time their #'s start to dip they have some "brilliant" idea for how to get them back up again. This is just another one of those. My opinions on these things aren't just how I feel, or what I want, they are based on what I've seen happen time and again, over decades of playing MMOs.

Take all this with a grain of salt. I only log in to this game to grind gold, and occasionally level up a new class. I want to have more reason to log in, something to look forward to, and I just don't see a few random minigames doing that. :p
 

Neranja

<Bronze Donator>
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What the hell are they going to create that's better than 1000 other minigames I can get on my phone?
This largely depends on the implementation and social aspects within said game. Housing for example, as implemented by some games, can be a very social thing for players to hang out and chat, or it can be a dead system no one wants to use, because no one sees the point in it. Which is probably the fear the WoW devs have with the system. And to be honest, in the context of their game housing could go horribly wrong, as evident by the abandoned garrisons.

Another interesting idea is "playing an instrument". Sure, you could play one in real life, or just play an MP3 or MIDI file. But in the social context of MMO games it somehow is recontextualized into something social.

Does it work in all types of games? No.
Should the developers try new things in their game and see what sticks? Yes.

Basically, more activities? Yes. That involve actually playing the game. And, really, what the game needs is some medium (with hard mode) group dungeons at endgame. Some group content that's fun and challenging.
So you want content for player power progression, apart from the very hard raids? At this point, as a general rule, you, and everyone else, should be careful what they wish for.

One finger on the monkey paw curls.

You get group content for player power progression (known as "gear") inspired by the market leader: You get hard dungeons, and then increasingly difficult "mythic" dungeons. But the increasing difficulty is mostly gimmicks, more damage/HP on the mobs, and a shorter and shorter timer to finish the dungeon. You also need "keystones" to unlock those difficulty levels, which you have to build up by level, and those keystones deplete in level when you fail a dungeon timer.

In turn, the dungeons are designed for specific paths and playstyles, and players are discouraged from innovating, or else it either gets patched or the players get the banhammer. While the first iteration (let's call it "Legion" here) was fun alright, they are streamlined, the edges sanded off, have more gimmicks, which are less and less fun with time. It looks like design decisions were made with Excel spreadsheet formulas. Over time they degenerate into chores you have to exactly play out according to the meta, or else you get flamed to oblivion by your peers. In this high-stakes environment players get increasingly annoyed by each other, especially at failure, and get toxic.

The developers on the other hand don't want to be seen handing out "high level gear" that was previously seen as status symbol for players who cleared those "very hard raids" to players who slowly grind their way up on a difficulty scale. The difference is seen as a high jump bar and a ladder.

If you have any ideas how to solve these issues, especially without neutering the inherent challenges of those different playstyles, while also not disparaging players from trying the raids--which are seen as something akin to the "crown jewels" of the game--then I think there are some people in Irvine, California, who would certainly like to know and copy your homework.

I only log in to this game to grind gold, and occasionally level up a new class. I want to have more reason to log in, something to look forward to, and I just don't see a few random minigames doing that.
You want power progression (aka "vertical") and want the devs to exclusively cater to your playstyle, and don't want them to develop other forms of progression (aka "horizontal") with different rewards (e.g. cosmetic).

At the same time you say it's "Korean MMO 101", because everything else, especially cosmetic items, are put on the cash shop. Here's an idea: Use FOMO. Put cosmetic things as a reward on time-limited horizontal progression systems, in something like "events". After the event has concluded you can sell the no longer available rewards on the cash shop.
 

Raes

Vyemm Raider
3,262
2,717
So you want content for player power progression, apart from the very hard raids? At this point, as a general rule, you, and everyone else, should be careful what they wish for.


It's not the "difficulty" of the raids, I enjoy difficult content. It's the stupid crazy jump-through-these-hoops mechanics, or raidwipe. Which they specifically admit in those notes.

"Wants to develop events/content that is geared towards fun and less hardcore than just endgame raids introducing crazy new mechanic after new mechanic."

Did you watch that vid I linked? Or vids of any of the LA endgame raids? I want content where the challenge/difficulty is overcome by playing my class well, not doing this on rails paint by numbers bullshit, where the whole group gets punished if any one person is .5 seconds off on their timing. It's just lazy design, "we don't know how to make this more challenging than the last raid, so we'll just add these stupid mechanics". And since every new raid must outdo the last one, the mechanics just get more and more retarded.

And please, skip the lecturing on game design. It makes my eyes roll so hard I can barely read your post. In addition, there's literally nothing you can say on that topic that I don't already know, or haven't already heard FROM YOU, and others on this board. MMO design threads and derails happen quite frequently here, ffs. And I'm not interested in having a discussion about general game design theories, I'm in the LA thread to talk about LA specifically.