Lumi's Batshit Insane Thread

Noodleface

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So can you think of any situation that would disprove your belief in ghosts? It seems a fairly unfalsifiable belief. Even if I presented 100% evidence that every single ghost sighting so far in the entire history of mankind was fake, that wouldn't be "proof" that ghosts don't exist.
I am of a very scientific mind, and I would like some sort of scientific evidence. I argue the same case over the existence of God. I cannot disprove his existence and no one can prove his existence to me, barring some divine intervention with the being itself. You can see it's an unfalsifiable belief but the opposite belief is as well. It is the nature of the argument.
 

Tuco

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Argument from ignorance is as poorly founded as it sounds. If you don't agree then this is the correct thread for your views on science.
 

Comrade Araysar

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I am certainly no Lumie, but we need this thread.

I've always been extremely fascinated with the paranormal stuff, mostly ghosts and also alien conspiracy theories. I know other people must enjoy some of the same.

So, my first question is, what do you think about this:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/44...meteor-ufo.htm
In the actual video itself its very clear that those chunks are traveling away from the meteor, not at it. i.e. chunks breaking off.

I am of a very scientific mind, and I would like some sort of scientific evidence. I argue the same case over the existence of God. I cannot disprove his existence and no one can prove his existence to me, barring some divine intervention with the being itself. You can see it's an unfalsifiable belief but the opposite belief is as well. It is the nature of the argument.
The burden of proof is on those making the claim. Why should the burden of proof be on people who are forced to prove a negative i.e. that something doesnt exist?

If I say that Flying Spaghetti Monster is real, how is my claim just as valid as your claim of disbelief when I clearly pulled shit out of my ass?
 

Noodleface

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I didn't say your claims were invalid. I guess the difference is I'm not trying to prove anything to you or anyone else, yet instead presenting evidence for people to base their own opinions. If you have some videos of the paranormal flying spaghetti monster you'd like to post feel free.
 

Soygen

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Thread sucks with no Lumie.
frown.png
 

khalid

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I am of a very scientific mind, and I would like some sort of scientific evidence. ... You can see it's an unfalsifiable belief but the opposite belief is as well. It is the nature of the argument.
Science just doesn't work with unfalsifiable beliefs. As Araysar points out, if you try to use science with those kinds of beliefs, then you end up with 3 zillion competing theories and no way to wittle them down.

For example, Araysar mentions the Flying Spaghetti Monster. You say post a picture. Well, we don't have to. Because, as everyone knows, the Flying Spaghetti monster is responsible for all ghost sightings and UFO sightings. I mean, go ahead, prove me wrong right. With science.
 

Julian The Apostate

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I think seeing ghosts and other "supernatural" stuff is a phenomenon. I just think its a psychological or neurological phenomenon. Something that happens within our brains and not something that actually happens in reality.
 

Noodleface

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Why do I need to prove you wrong? I don't want to. If you choose to believe in a tasty monster then that is your own right.

I said to post a video if he wants so we can all form our own opinions. If he doesn't want to that's fine.

Meanwhile, I can post videos of UFOs, ghosts, snow yetis, mole men, greys, draconians, reptilians, whatever - you can choose to believe them or not. Of course, if you're looking for another Lumie I am not him - yet..
 

Comrade Araysar

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I think seeing ghosts and other "supernatural" stuff is a phenomenon. I just think its a psychological or neurological phenomenon. Something that happens within our brains and not something that actually happens in reality.
I think a lot of it is similar to near-death experiences people have where they always seem to experience THEIR particular version of heaven. Why? Its because when you die your body pretty much releases all the endorphins it has in one final massive fireworks display as you die. You essentially imagine whatever you want as you're dying and it's real as anything could ever be. I guess it's the body's way of dealing with death.
 

khalid

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Why do I need to prove you wrong? I don't want to. If you choose to believe in a tasty monster then that is your own right.
But YOU were the one that first brought up science.

noodleface_sl said:
I am of a very scientific mind, and I would like some sort of scientific evidence
It isn't that I want you to prove me wrong or I want to prove you wrong. It is just that having a discussion about shit that we can't have any evidence for, and then saying you are of a scientific mind and would like some sort of scientific evidence just strikes me as off.
 

Tuco

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Why do I need to prove you wrong? I don't want to. If you choose to believe in a tasty monster then that is your own right.

I said to post a video if he wants so we can all form our own opinions. If he doesn't want to that's fine.

Meanwhile, I can post videos of UFOs, ghosts, snow yetis, mole men, greys, draconians, reptilians, whatever - you can choose to believe them or not. Of course, if you're looking for another Lumie I am not him - yet..
This is all fine. And I don't think there's a problem unless you disagere that that belief without evidence is not scientific understanding.
 

Julian The Apostate

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I think a lot of it is similar to near-death experiences people have where they always seem to experience THEIR particular version of heaven. Why? Its because when you die your body pretty much releases all the endorphins it has in one final massive fireworks display as you die. You essentially imagine whatever you want as you're dying and it's real as anything could ever be. I guess it's the body's way of dealing with death.
In Daniel Dennets book "Breaking the Spell" he talkes about Air Force pilots taking G-force training classes reported a lot of near death experiences complete with visions of a white light at the end of the tunnel. Turns out it's really just a lack of oxygen to the brain.
 

Noodleface

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This is all fine. And I don't think there's a problem unless you disagere that that belief without evidence is not scientific understanding.
I agree, and I think this may be where the Lumie line begins. The reason I enjoy TV shows like Ghost Hunters, Ghost Adventures, etc, is because they are working with electrical/computer engineers to create devices to better understand paranormal occurrences. Of course these investigators are pretty biased one way or the other, but I appreciate them trying to work with science to prove the existence. I think Lumie just believed every and any theory thrown his way.
 

khalid

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I think Lumie just believed every and any theory thrown his way.
Sure he did, but when you start believing in unfalsifiable beliefs then you are on the road that way yourself. Lets pick any one of Lumie's beliefs, how are any of those any worse than believing in ghosts or the supernatural?
 

Noodleface

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I don't think they're worse, I just think that's how he was. I know people like that in real life as well. There's nothing wrong with it but I prefer to believe in stuff that I can see some form of evidence of. If that sets me up to be a Lumie, then so be it.
 

Void

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I've got a guy at work that loves Ghost Hunters. Every once in awhile he'll tell me about an episode, and it invariably ends up with him being mad at me. I tell him that there could be ghosts for all I know, but the ghosts they show on Ghost Hunters are in no way, shape, or form actually verifiable ghosts. He gets mad and says they are, and we go around and around until I usually end with the argument that, if they were able to prove ghosts beyond a shred of doubt, don't you think they'd be doing a lot more with it than teasing people on a crappy cable network show? He doesn't get it though, he is convinced that when they tell him it was a ghost, that it truly was. I tell him that sure, I'd love to believe there were ghosts and such, but not a single one has been proven to me to be real. And the butthurt continues.

I typically try to avoid those kinds of conversations now, because it a believer isn't going to be swayed by something like logic, even if the logic is that it *could* be a ghost, sure, but it *could* be a lot of other things too, so why did you pick ghost out of all those choices?
 

Caliane

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I've got a guy at work that loves Ghost Hunters. Every once in awhile he'll tell me about an episode, and it invariably ends up with him being mad at me. I tell him that there could be ghosts for all I know, but the ghosts they show on Ghost Hunters are in no way, shape, or form actually verifiable ghosts. He gets mad and says they are, and we go around and around until I usually end with the argument that, if they were able to prove ghosts beyond a shred of doubt, don't you think they'd be doing a lot more with it than teasing people on a crappy cable network show? He doesn't get it though, he is convinced that when they tell him it was a ghost, that it truly was. I tell him that sure, I'd love to believe there were ghosts and such, but not a single one has been proven to me to be real. And the butthurt continues.

I typically try to avoid those kinds of conversations now, because it a believer isn't going to be swayed by something like logic, even if the logic is that it *could* be a ghost, sure, but it *could* be a lot of other things too, so why did you pick ghost out of all those choices?
if they had "proof", they would be going back to that location where they got that "proof" every damn day until no one could deny them.



Ghosts for me is the basic. Rational mind says no. but tell that to my not rational mind when I'm walking down an unlit stairwell into an 100% dark basement in some abandoned 300year old house. Cuase it isn't going to believe you.

Plausible explanations. First is clearly, its your mind fucking with you. Hallucination, night terrors, waking dreams, self hypnosis, etc. All very real things that can explain pretty much all ghost sightings.
Second option is more guessing theory. First off, we have more then 5 senses. And I don't mean in a silly esp way quite yet. I mean basic.

Sight. Well sight isn't just sight right off. color and shapes are quite different. our eyesight is sharper at dusk due to ability to see black and white is greater then color.
"Neuroanatomists generally regard it as two senses, given that different receptors are responsible for the perception of color and brightness."
Then this is further broken down, as the nerves from the eye move to the visual cortex. our brain translates what we see into our consciousness, and subconsciousness.
Look at every optical illusion. there is a clearly a huge separation between what our EYE sees, and what our brain tells us what we are seeing.
what then is really interesting is, there is also a difference between what our consciousness sees, and what our subconsciousness does.
Studies showing people with brain damage, that left them blind being unable to process the information for the waking mind, but still being able to see with their subconscious. Picking out colors and objects they can't see.
So you can not believe your own eyes quite literally. there is alot of room for mistakes to be made in the process.
So the pseudo-science is ,what if there really IS something there, we are seeing, but that information is not being processed by our conscious sight, but instead the subconscious sees it. And then forms a pattern out of this "whatever", in the same way we see faces, and penises in everything, and that does slip into our conscious mind sometimes. So then what is it? Dunno. Maybe its infrared or ultraviolet light? Time distortions? gravity? auras? (reasonable to crazy scale. haha) If our eyes are slightly more powerful then we think, and can pick up bits and pieces of non-visible light, maybe this is considered trash information and ignored like eye floaters.
and all our senses are like this.

internal pain, sense of time, are 2 sense not part of the childish 5 senses as well.