Marriage and the Power of Divorce

Dandai

Dandai

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Deathwing said:
Well, she's married to me, so yes.

Also, yes. She has a long history of trying to medicate that issue.
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Just catching up with the thread, but I can 100% empathize with your situation. Fortunately (I suppose), I can also empathize with the missus’ situation. Undiagnosable chronic pain that will ostensibly plague you for the rest of your life reeeeally fucks with your mental health. I’ve always been inclined toward sullenness and melancholy, but I wouldn’t say I was depressed. Nine years ago I had experienced two years of continuOUS chronic rib pain. Experiencing continuous pain that ranged in severity between an infected hangnail and nauseating pain that brings a grown man to tears was profoundly depressing in a way that I’m not sure anyone can relate to if they haven’t experienced it firsthand.

EVERY enjoyable activity was accompanied with varying degrees of agony. Eventually I started avoiding doing things or stopped doing them altogether because they just weren’t worth the pain they caused. I got to the point that I seriously considered whether or not I could live like that for another 50 years. If it hadn’t been for my convictions and belief that it would get better “someday,” I wouldn’t be here today.

Until that point in my life I thought depressed people just needed to force themselves to get out and do productive or enjoyable activities to treat their depression. I see now that only someone who’s never been depressed could be so naive. Obviously there are people who are “depressed” just like there are people who are “oppressed” while making six figures and having nothing but first world problems. I’m not talking about those people. I’m talking about people like me (or rather who I was at the time) and (from what you’re saying) your wife.

You absolutely shouldn’t sacrifice your long term mental health and needs because of her illness. That’ll just make you as much of a burden on someone else (not to mention yourself) as she currently is to you. Counter intuitively, the easiest and best long term strategy to maintaining your sanity and self respect is to adopt the responsibility that she will not and cannot.

By hook or by crook, compel her to do the things that will improve her quality of life (or at least get it trending in the right direction). It’s not easy, but it doesn’t have to be hard either. Do at least a cursory read of the relevant medical literature so that you can communicate with her doctors on an informed level. Learn what medical services and professionals are available in your area.

You said she hasn’t seen any specialists or had extensive tests done. That’s a good first step but arguably the most emotionally taxing. Unless you get lucky, you’ll probably go through a half dozen doctors who are either clueless or cynically disinterested to see another “fibromyalgia” patient. However, you WILL eventually find someone who will actually care enough to listen and work through a solution. In case it wasn’t obvious, your attitude and approach (as in you, not the missus) is going to determine how difficult this process will be.

Establish someone you can bitch to that you are 100% confident it won’t get back to the wife. You’re gonna need that pressure release and probably very frequently when you first start out. She’s probably gonna abuse you and use you as her pressure release. Take these opportunities to develop your patience and listening skills. She will inevitably get accusatory and malicious with you. You don’t deserve that (unless you’re an asshole and you do!) so you’ll need to perfect the art of tactful self defense so that you can be the supportive husband while also establishing boundaries that aren’t emasculating. (For example, “I know you’re in pain and this is extremely frustrating for you, but it’s also hard for me to feel so helpless to help you. I don’t deserve to be spoken to that way. I’m going to go do XYZ. When you’re ready to talk to me like the loving husband that I am, you can find me there. I love you.”)

As a minor tangent, my aunt has lived with fibromyalgia for the better part of 40 years. She’s taken pretty much every drug labeled for fibro treatment that’s ever been released. Six or seven months ago she decided to stop taking ALL of her pills (which was incredibly dumb as she stopped cold turkey and was hospitalized for a week due to withdrawal). She started taking CBD shortly after being released from the hospital and her symptoms are all but completely relieved to this day. It’s a real life fucking miracle. If your wife hasn’t tried CBD, definitely look into it.

My apologies for the novel, but if you skimmed or skipped to this part at the end, please do go back and read it. Your situation fucking sucks. You don’t deserve to have to deal with this extraordinarily negative shit. But as a man who takes responsibility and ownership of his family and husbandly obligations, you must carry your wife as far as it takes to get her through this. Your character and your marriage will be unimaginably stronger for it.
 
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Deathwing

Deathwing

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Dandai said:
Just catching up with the thread, but I can 100% empathize with your situation. Fortunately (I suppose), I can also empathize with the missus’ situation. Undiagnosable chronic pain that will ostensibly plague you for the rest of your life reeeeally fucks with your mental health. I’ve always been inclined toward sullenness and melancholy, but I wouldn’t say I was depressed. Nine years ago I had experienced two years of continuOUS chronic rib pain. Experiencing continuous pain that ranged in severity between an infected hangnail and nauseating pain that brings a grown man to tears was profoundly depressing in a way that I’m not sure anyone can relate to if they haven’t experienced it firsthand.

EVERY enjoyable activity was accompanied with varying degrees of agony. Eventually I started avoiding doing things or stopped doing them altogether because they just weren’t worth the pain they caused. I got to the point that I seriously considered whether or not I could live like that for another 50 years. If it hadn’t been for my convictions and belief that it would get better “someday,” I wouldn’t be here today.

Until that point in my life I thought depressed people just needed to force themselves to get out and do productive or enjoyable activities to treat their depression. I see now that only someone who’s never been depressed could be so naive. Obviously there are people who are “depressed” just like there are people who are “oppressed” while making six figures and having nothing but first world problems. I’m not talking about those people. I’m talking about people like me (or rather who I was at the time) and (from what you’re saying) your wife.

You absolutely shouldn’t sacrifice your long term mental health and needs because of her illness. That’ll just make you as much of a burden on someone else (not to mention yourself) as she currently is to you. Counter intuitively, the easiest and best long term strategy to maintaining your sanity and self respect is to adopt the responsibility that she will not and cannot.

By hook or by crook, compel her to do the things that will improve her quality of life (or at least get it trending in the right direction). It’s not easy, but it doesn’t have to be hard either. Do at least a cursory read of the relevant medical literature so that you can communicate with her doctors on an informed level. Learn what medical services and professionals are available in your area.

You said she hasn’t seen any specialists or had extensive tests done. That’s a good first step but arguably the most emotionally taxing. Unless you get lucky, you’ll probably go through a half dozen doctors who are either clueless or cynically disinterested to see another “fibromyalgia” patient. However, you WILL eventually find someone who will actually care enough to listen and work through a solution. In case it wasn’t obvious, your attitude and approach (as in you, not the missus) is going to determine how difficult this process will be.

Establish someone you can bitch to that you are 100% confident it won’t get back to the wife. You’re gonna need that pressure release and probably very frequently when you first start out. She’s probably gonna abuse you and use you as her pressure release. Take these opportunities to develop your patience and listening skills. She will inevitably get accusatory and malicious with you. You don’t deserve that (unless you’re an asshole and you do!) so you’ll need to perfect the art of tactful self defense so that you can be the supportive husband while also establishing boundaries that aren’t emasculating. (For example, “I know you’re in pain and this is extremely frustrating for you, but it’s also hard for me to feel so helpless to help you. I don’t deserve to be spoken to that way. I’m going to go do XYZ. When you’re ready to talk to me like the loving husband that I am, you can find me there. I love you.”)

As a minor tangent, my aunt has lived with fibromyalgia for the better part of 40 years. She’s taken pretty much every drug labeled for fibro treatment that’s ever been released. Six or seven months ago she decided to stop taking ALL of her pills (which was incredibly dumb as she stopped cold turkey and was hospitalized for a week due to withdrawal). She started taking CBD shortly after being released from the hospital and her symptoms are all but completely relieved to this day. It’s a real life fucking miracle. If your wife hasn’t tried CBD, definitely look into it.

My apologies for the novel, but if you skimmed or skipped to this part at the end, please do go back and read it. Your situation fucking sucks. You don’t deserve to have to deal with this extraordinarily negative shit. But as a man who takes responsibility and ownership of his family and husbandly obligations, you must carry your wife as far as it takes to get her through this. Your character and your marriage will be unimaginably stronger for it.
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I appreciate the long response, no need to apologize.

She did visit a different general practitioner earlier this week. It's not a specialist, but she needed to find a new doctor anyway, her current one sucked regardless of her condition. The visit went better than I could have expected, the doctor took 10 vials of blood for various tests. I'm not looking forward to the bill since we're on a high deductible HSA, but this feels worth it at this point.

She seemed receptive to the doctor, which is better than I hoped for. My only disappointment is that he seems dismissive of marijuana. I was hoping that was something she could try. It seems promising and cheap. But, I'm not too bummed about that, New York, while allowing medical marijuana, is doing so in the most asinine way. There's like 4 dispensaries the whole fucking state and if you want some, you have to go to a doctor that's 1.5 hours away for us.

Also, I got laid the following day so :D Hopefully can keep that up. We already had the tough conversation, this shit needs to change last week. I'm still gently slipping in reminders when appropriate.

I will have to find someone to bitch to. My wife is usually that person. I'm really just not a social person, my wife is the only friend I need(or maybe not?).
 
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Dandai

Dandai

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Deathwing said:
I appreciate the long response, no need to apologize.

She did visit a different general practitioner earlier this week. It's not a specialist, but she needed to find a new doctor anyway, her current one sucked regardless of her condition. The visit went better than I could have expected, the doctor took 10 vials of blood for various tests. I'm not looking forward to the bill since we're on a high deductible HSA, but this feels worth it at this point.

She seemed receptive to the doctor, which is better than I hoped for. My only disappointment is that he seems dismissive of marijuana. I was hoping that was something she could try. It seems promising and cheap. But, I'm not too bummed about that, New York, while allowing medical marijuana, is doing so in the most asinine way. There's like 4 dispensaries the whole fucking state and if you want some, you have to go to a doctor that's 1.5 hours away for us.

Also, I got laid the following day so :D Hopefully can keep that up. We already had the tough conversation, this shit needs to change last week. I'm still gently slipping in reminders when appropriate.

I will have to find someone to bitch to. My wife is usually that person. I'm really just not a social person, my wife is the only friend I need(or maybe not?).
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It doesn’t necessarily have to be a close friend, but that would obviously be ideal. Test the waters for receptivity with a male coworker and gradually go all in as you build rapport. Not to sound too Puritanical, but venting about this to a female has an extremely high probability of going off the rails. In all likelihood a female would just think you’re a cunt, but she might also interpret your vulnerability as endearing and want to “save” you from you situation. That’s obviously not going to help your relationship with your wife.
 
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Noodleface

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Deathwing said:
I appreciate the long response, no need to apologize.

She did visit a different general practitioner earlier this week. It's not a specialist, but she needed to find a new doctor anyway, her current one sucked regardless of her condition. The visit went better than I could have expected, the doctor took 10 vials of blood for various tests. I'm not looking forward to the bill since we're on a high deductible HSA, but this feels worth it at this point.

She seemed receptive to the doctor, which is better than I hoped for. My only disappointment is that he seems dismissive of marijuana. I was hoping that was something she could try. It seems promising and cheap. But, I'm not too bummed about that, New York, while allowing medical marijuana, is doing so in the most asinine way. There's like 4 dispensaries the whole fucking state and if you want some, you have to go to a doctor that's 1.5 hours away for us.

Also, I got laid the following day so :D Hopefully can keep that up. We already had the tough conversation, this shit needs to change last week. I'm still gently slipping in reminders when appropriate.

I will have to find someone to bitch to. My wife is usually that person. I'm really just not a social person, my wife is the only friend I need(or maybe not?).
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New York is probably pretty close to legalization anyways aren't they? I thought I read at least one city it's legal in. Just move to MA, were fully legal now.
 
Deathwing

Deathwing

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I'd rather go celibate the rest of my life than move to Massachusetts. Any job I can get is likely going to have to deal with a shitty Boston commute.

Western part of the state is alright.
 
Hoss

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Namon said:
I come home and enter into our kitchen (used to be the garage before the remodel) and went upstairs into the living room.
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I know this isn't the point of your post, but your house man. A kitchen that used to be a garage and the living room is upstairs? The kitchen sounds awesome at first, until I start wondering what happened to all the shit you used to keep in the garage. Did you murder babies in a past life?
 
Namon

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No wife opened a catering business and it's a simple 2 car attached garage. Took out the door (single wide enough for 2 cars kind of door), built a wall in it's place with two windows and a french door. It was already finished, but we took out the drywall and installed food grade paneling (have to for code). Also another reason we chose the garage was because for a commercial kitchen, you have to have it easily segragated from living space, especially if you have pets, which we do, so there you go and we have a door that swings shut to keep animals out. Living room is the "ground floor" but Tennessee is crawl space land, so the garage kitchen is on the ground level, then you go up like four stairs into the main level of the house. Sorry that is totally our "local" term that makes no sense outside of our household haha. As far as garage storage, really it's a pretty small garage and was only just big enough for two cars. We now have a car port for those and 2 sheds for storage. 1 for your typical garage stuff and 1 for catering related stuff (plates, cutlery, and other dry stuff).
 
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yeahthatisneathuh

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Some gems from my relationship over the years:

One time she said I abused her when I rolled her over in the bed when she was doing that thing where she took up the whole bed. I still laugh about this. She left for two days to stay with her cousin (who had just adopted a kid), so I could "think" about things. I flat out refused to apologize for abuse which didn't happen. This was a few years ago. The extent of the contact was: I rolled her from my side to her side, after asking if she would move, which she didn't for some reason that to this day she hasn't explained. I will randomly recall this event and say "remember when you said I abused you" and she'll go "YOU DID" but we laugh about it. I'm convinced she still thinks it was abuse.

For a while we couldn't stop calling each other "faggot" as a term of endearment, but eventually we had to stop because it was getting too close in public, and also you shouldn't refer to a loved one as "faggot." Usually.

Sometimes after she takes some of her night time meds she gets a little loopy. She'll put on Planet Earth and yell at the television. "FIGHT HIM! TAKE HIM DOOOOWWN" and laugh herself to sleep. First few times it was funny. It is no longer funny.

She will deliberately troll me. I asked her to sew a hole closed in my blanket, and she said, "Why don't you? huh?" knowing I would patiently elaborately explain that sewing is in her skillset, and I didn't ask her to install a new OS on her system, because that's not in her skillset. She does this all the time with random things knowing I will take the time to respond seriously.

All that being said: I love her to pieces, we are best friends, and she is usually very reasonable and really fun to hang out with. I can't imagine life without her.
 
Foler

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I think I want to skip all the bullshit dating and jump into marriage. Maybe mail order bride. Ukranians women are old fashion which I think is great
 
Khane

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Foler said:
I think I want to skip all the bullshit dating and jump into marriage. Maybe mail order bride. Ukranians women are old fashion which I think is great
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An old co-worker of mine had a mail order bride from the Ukraine. She hated him, pretended she didn't speak English, and was obviously waiting until she got her citizenship/green card and could divorce him. She was stone cold.

Isn't that an Eastern Bloc/Russian way of thinking? They expect men to be men... and if you're ordering a bride you're probably not going to be viewed as much of a man.
 
Foler

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Khane said:
An old co-worker of mine had a mail order bride from the Ukraine. She hated him, pretended she didn't speak English, and was obviously waiting until she got her citizenship/green card and could divorce him. She was stone cold.

Isn't that an Eastern Bloc/Russian way of thinking? They expect men to be men... and if you're ordering a bride you're probably not going to be viewed as much of a man.
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So what country would be the best place to order a bride from?
 
iannis

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Namon said:
The other day was probably one of my biggest WTF moments in 13 years of marriage. We had our first really warm day of the year, and it was in the 80s. I come home and enter into our kitchen (used to be the garage before the remodel) and went upstairs into the living room. It was hot in there so I went over to the thermostat which was still set on heat. No biggie, it was cold that morning, and the wife drops the daughter off and then goes straight into the kitchen to do cake orders and what not, so I just figured she hadn't bothered to switch it over to cool, so I did.

About ten minutes later I hear my wife yell "WHO TURNED THE THERMOSTAT ON???"

"I did, why?"

"I KEPT IT OFF AND SWEAT MY ASS OFF ALL DAY, AND YOU JUST STROLL IN AND TURN IT ON???"

"Uh... that's what you do when you are sweating. Don't get pissed at me for being a dumbass."

She then goes on a rant that she is trying to save the electric bill. It has been stupid high, but we had proven it was because of the shitty energy hog hotel unit we have in the kitchen. It just runs nonstop all night during the winter when it gets really cold. We had a ton of historic data in the previous bills to show that, and I was completely blind sided she somehow came to the conclusion that ALL units need to be off. I mean shit March and February were really cold still and we just simply started shutting the hotel unit completely off at night and boom, bill went down almost by half. Needless to say she still continued to bite my head off, and I let her rant, told her to get fucked. Once we calmed down she apologized, and I have given in because really I'm fine at this point if the fans are on. However I told her if I start getting uncomfortable the AC is going on and she can get fucked again.

Woman logic still eludes me after 13 years.

RE: Finances ours are completely together. Her family has serious wealth and once the trusts go fully live in the next year or so, I've made it clear I do not want any of my assets tied up in that shit so we may go a little separate there, but it will be in the form that she will open a new checking account for any funds she gets from that and then she can transfer it into our main account. It's a long story, but bottom line they really don't want us sons in law being in direct contact with the family wealth. Cool, not mine anyway.
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Yeah. You can't blame them and an honest man doesn't want it anyway. That sounds like a not at all contentious situation.
 
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Namon

Namon

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iannis said:
Yeah. You can't blame them and an honest man doesn't want it anyway. That sounds like a not at all contentious situation.
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It's really not. They are the sweetest people and it really wasn't an issue until my wife's sister married a legit gold digger who has used almost every cent that has been dolled out so far to buy himself fancy trucks and other redneck toys. I personally don't care it's my children's future. I'm good.
 
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Noodleface

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Just something light hearted from today

I got my wife really sick. I've been sick for 3 weeks (can't shake my cough). Anyways, I've been going to bed a few hours earlier than usual every single night this entire time to try to help heal. She hasn't. She always stays up too late, no matter if she's sick or not. I told her "you should probably go to bed early" as I went to bed in passing.

This morning the kids wake up and she's like an absolute dead rock in the bed. Ok whatever, Saturday is usually my day to sleep in but I'm not gonna complain because she's sick. I then asked her how late she was up.and she says 230, so I got "what the fuck did you do that for????" Legitimately angry about it. Now she's sulking around because I "yelled at her like she was a kid"

The double standard there is hilarious. I get yelled at like I'm a kid nearly every day
 
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