Middle-earth: Shadow of Mordor

Looks like fun. Although, I get the feeling that the original design was just set in a generic fantasy world, since the wraith abilities are pretty integral to the game and have zero to do with Tolkien lore.

Raes_sl said:

Looks like fun. Although, I get the feeling that the original design was just set in a generic fantasy world, since the wraith abilities are pretty integral to the game and have zero to do with Tolkien lore.

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I'm pretty sure the original design was "just like AC and Batman" and they put the license on top to guarantee sales. If the Kingdom Come: Deliverance lead designer is right, most distributors were holding on with major investments into next gen titles, so the original pitch was probably as bulletproof as they come outside sports games and CoD.

The expressions of the orcs look amazing.

Hopefully there is some kind of "covertly doing the bidding of a ringwraith" plotline to explain the weird not tolkien stuff, with the ringwraith as the final boss (as Sauron can't be).

Such as preventing a human/elven patrol from poaching your controlled or infiltrated orcs or ...?

The graphics and combat are impressive, but I'd to see more RPG elements with human settlements and a variety of enemies. I don't want to spend hours killing nothing but orcs.

I can't think of a single lotr flavored game that has done civilization well in any form. Now you play a ranger as well... Potential is there depending on where you reawaken from death, but this seems very much self-generating action oriented than story weaving RPG.

it's interesting... because in the 8 minute gameplay trailer, the guy specifically says that Talion is NOT a wraith... just, he has a wraith companion that gives him those abilities... but everywhere i'm reading seems to just say that HE is a wraith... either way, the potential for this is pretty high.

Didn't it say Sauron returned, killed Talion, and a wraith saved his soul a la spirit bonding deus ex machina. So he isn't a wraith, just a dead human being kept alive by a wraith spirit?

Sulrn_sl said:

Didn't it say Sauron returned, killed Talion, and a wraith saved his soul a la spirit bonding deus ex machina. So he isn't a wraith, just a dead human being kept alive by a wraith spirit?

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yeah, that's what I thought they said happened too. no idea why a wraith would do that... especially just to let the guy go around killing agents of the dark lord... that doesn't seem to jive with anything Tolkien ever put out. the maia's and whatnot, sure, they could switch allegiances, like ungoliant for example... but even shelob, who never acknowledged sauron's authority, was still referred to by sauron as his "cat." he let her pretty much do what she wanted because all she wanted to do was hang out in that passage and eat anyone who came by. it kept that passage secret and safe. I imagine that if she tried to act against sauron, he'd destroy her. I can only assume that that was sauron's plan with smaug as well. he wanted smaug to wake up in order to just wreak havoc on the dwarves, elves and men. that would have suited smaug just fine as all he wanted was more gold. if he turned against sauron, the ringwraiths probably would have had a field day with him.

so again... why would a wraith bring Talion back to life and NOT make him a full-fledged agent of darkness? I mean, I guess we'll find out soon enough when the game comes out... just very interesting... also, is that the shard of narsil he has? or just another broken sword?

either way, i'm very excited to see how this game turns out. the nemesis system could be great fun, or just another over-hyped, far too ambitious design idea that turns into another fable.

It's his son's broken sword.

I know that living beings can become wraiths but I'm not sure under what circumstances. Are all wraiths necessarily agents of Sauron?

Narsil is in Rivendell by this time.

supertouch_sl said:

Are all wraiths necessarily agents of Sauron?

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I can't imagine why they wouldn't be...

though... spending some time on the LOTR wiki... it says that outside of necromancy or a morgul blade, wraiths can be created when someone dies in darkness or serious dishonor. it also says that the Dunlendings feared that Helm Hammerhand was a wraith that wandered through Rohan as it's protector... which infers that no, wraiths are not necessarily agents of sauron...

so maybe because Talion's job was to protect the black gate, and that he failed to do so resulting in his fellow rangers and his family being killed... the severity of the dishonor he felt made him ripe for either turning into a wraith, or attracting a wraith to bond with him.

Simplest explaination is that a Ringwraith is manipulating him into weeding out shit orcs or facilitating his own rise over other major Sauron allies.

Then again there is that mountain full of them Aragorn summons and Frodo was said to be turning into one after being stabbed... so it could just be his own powers of good.

The oathbreaker route makes sense (cursed men whose souls cannot rest), the morgul blade doesn't as Frodo would have ended up a midget ringwraith.

Sulrn_sl said:

the morgul blade doesn't as Frodo would have ended up a midget ringwraith.

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He wouldn't have become a ringwraith, just a wraith. Ringwraith very specifically means the 9 human kings who took the rings from Sauron. Regardless, Frodo's size as a wraith is kind of irrelevant.

I'm pretty sure it's different in the books, but fairly sure in the movie Vigo explains he's slowly becoming a wraith and will come to serve the dark lord along the other 9. Wraith w/ringwraiths is still a ringwraith in my book.

It's fucking weird that that climb animations are theexactsame as Assassin's Creed (the rock placement, the jumping, etc), even the walking on the wires is the exact same. The dude has a hidden wrist blade as well.

I love Assassin's Creed so no real complaint from me to get more similar stuff.

there seems to be a difference between a wraith raised using black magic (ringwraiths and morgul blade victims) and wraith created via dishonor (oathbreakers). originally I assumed that they all were automatically servents of sauron but that's not really the case. the ringwraiths and morgul blade victims, I think, are there own beast. from what I can tell, they don't really have any kind of will of their own. they are simply servants of whomever created them. in this case, sauron.

upon further study it seems perfectly plausible that Talion died with grief and became a wraith and all he cares about his vengeance at this point. I wouldn't really call him a good guy anymore, but he's clearly working against sauron.

Sulrn_sl said:

I'm pretty sure it's different in the books, but fairly sure in the movie Vigo explains he's slowly becoming a wraith and will come to serve the dark lord along the other 9. Wraith w/ringwraiths is still a ringwraith in my book.

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it was like that in the books as well. morgul blade victims will become wraiths without magical healing. that being said, both mediums have made the distinction that a wraith raised via morgul blade and a ringwraith are 2 very different creatures. the ringwraiths are SPECIFICALLY the 9 human lords who were given each a ring of power. any being that was cut with a morgul blade will become a wraith and serve sauron alongside the 9 ringwraiths, but will not be the same as them. yes, they are both wraiths... but the ringwraiths are much more powerful due to their rings.