MLB 2013 season
- Thread starter supertouch_sl
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Although I agree that Ichiro should be a first ballot Hall of Famer, I don't think having the most hits in a 13 year period guarantees a spot in the hall. All the players that had the most hits in each decade going back to the 40s (as far back as I want) are Hall of Famers or probably will be (2000s: Ichiro) except for the 90s, and I don't think he will even sniff the hall.
However, his stats from the NPB should not be included. All this talk about the NPB being somewhere between AAA and MLB is BS. How many Asian players or players from the Japan league has sustained success in the MLB? If you still have doubts, check out NPB stats for Tuffy Rhodes, who couldn't even get a major league roster spot before he went to Japan.
edit: looks like the hits leader from every decade is a Hall of Famer except for the previously mentioned 90s. Good trivia question.
Tarrant
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Tarrant
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I agree they shouldn't be counted. When Cecil Fielder played over there, or any other player in MLB we never counted their HR's towards their pro stats or anything else and as much as I like Ichrio an exception shouldn't be made for him when it comes to official hits for his major league career.
"Counted" for what? Nobody's saying that it should be part of his MLB stats, but it's certainly a part of his body of work as a baseball player.
Unless you think that, say, Negro League players shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame either.
Unless you think that, say, Negro League players shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame either.
It's the Baseball Hall of Fame, not the MLB Hall of Fame.
Someone on FanGraphs already did the research to determine how much stats from NPB translate/are comparable to MLB and they fell in between AAA and MLB.
Granted, not a lot of players from NPB have done well in the MLB - but the huge majority of players in the minor leagues don't do well in the MLB either.
Someone on FanGraphs already did the research to determine how much stats from NPB translate/are comparable to MLB and they fell in between AAA and MLB.
Granted, not a lot of players from NPB have done well in the MLB - but the huge majority of players in the minor leagues don't do well in the MLB either.
Do you have a link to the article? I couldn't find it, but I didn't look that hard. I know it was a while ago.
I found a good piece on ESPN Insider that compares the numbers between the leagues, can't find the Fangraphs one.
This guy thinks even 4k strikeouts is possible for Darvish.
Yu and Ichiro target 4,000
This guy thinks even 4k strikeouts is possible for Darvish.
Tarrant
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for one I agree it's part of the body of baseball but you don't see leagues in any other country being mentioned, Japan should be no different.
second, the negro league thing has been used a couple times and each time the same thing shoots it down. You can't compare the two because they literally had no where else to play until a certain point. Even if one of their players was better than anyone in MLB they were stuck there with no where to go. That's simply not the case anymore. That's why those stats are counted.
Also lets not get silly with the "its the baseball HoF, not the MLB HoF" stuff because name me a single player that was exclusive to Japan and was a superstar over there that's in the HoF over here. You know very well there isn't. No players in the HoF have stats included that they achived in any other league in another country.
Tarrant
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You are not much of a baseball fan if you think there is no place for it, THIS IS HOW BASEBALL HAS HANDLED PEOPLE LIKE AROD FOREVER UNTIL VERY RECENTLY.
Grimmlokk
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Indeed, every time a 250million dollar guy with 600 home runs is at the center of a huge steroid controversy and flips on the people he brought in they throw at him multiple times per at bat.
EVERY SINGLE TIME THIS HAS HAPPENED IN HISTORY! LRN 2 BASEBALL!
Muurloen
Pronouns: zie/zhem/zer
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I was at the game where Russ Springer missed a pitch at Bonds, then hit him with a following pitch. The Minute Maid erupted in cheers. Man that seems forever ago....
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...users/2675441/
The point is, when Dempster beaned Arod, it wasnt the first time a pitcher took matters in their own hands.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports...users/2675441/
The point is, when Dempster beaned Arod, it wasnt the first time a pitcher took matters in their own hands.
Tarrant
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You're right, being a fan of people not going out to try and hurt other people makes me not a fan of baseball. You got me.
Idiot.
Also, what Grimm said.
First off, you don't have any clue how the posting system works. Japanese players cannot simply choose to come play in the US. It doesn't work that way and never has. So the Negro League analogy, even with your shitty argument, still works just fine.
Second, nobody's talking about making MLB stats and NPB stats exactly equivalent, but there are plenty of other leagues in the world, and what players do there matter. The game is just now starting to become more than just the playground for the western hemisphere; the "but it's never happened" argument is stupid. Ichiro was the first prominent hitter to come to MLB and that was a whopping 13 years ago now. Lots of precedent backing up your argument, there.
Third, Sadaharu Oh is amazing and you shut your whore mouths about him.
Tarrant
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I'm well aware of how players make the transition to the MLB and of the process involved. For them though at least there is the possibility of a process, that wasn't true with the Negro League for a very long time. It changed eventually and that's great, it needed too. But you can't compare the two, it's apples and oranges.
You won't hear me disagree that the topic at hand shouldn't be something that changes either. I just question how they will do it because it could very well rewrite some of Baseball history. Not many casual fans know who Sadaharu Oh is (which is stupid), none of them would consider him a baseball home run king, but he is through and through. If they start including other league stats in other leages throughout the world it's going to have a much bigger impact then people may realize and will be a huge deal and change to many players.
I'm all for it, I think it's great that Baseball has picked up so much steam throughout the world and we can even be talking about things like this but should those states be included in Ichrios official state line when he eventually makes int into the HoF then the whole system needs to be redone imo.
Gankak
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I think Ichiro should be a first ballot hall of famer for sure, but like Duppin my opinion is probably slanted. That said he is only like 300ish hits away from 3k in the MLB. Thats really only 2 reasonable seasons. He could probably play those and get there. At least thats what I am hoping he does as that would probably make him a lock for HoF.
I think he'll get into the Hall of Fame. I don't think it'll be on the first ballot, because the idiots that populate the BBWAA seem to think that they have created a special class of "super Hall of Famers" by deliberately denying votes on people's first ballots.