Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO

Sythrak

Vyemm Raider
508
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As for "bosses" and such at the "raid" level. Watching what I say here so Nick doesnt finger blast my account - boxing is not going to be an issue to an extreme. Some "boss" mobs may fall victim to them, but for the vast majority Ive seen so far - the work needed to not only get to them is exhausting. But the encounters themselves and the chance of uncertainty leaves little room for error that, to be specific, would mostly be encountered by a box crew "only". These arent your typical Temple of Veeshan tank and spank mobs.
Unfortunately things like MacroQuest will make it trivial. There's pretty much scripts to beat every raid encounter in EQ, including the modern non tank and spank versions. The people that are boxing these aren't going to be using Multiplicity.

Given enough time and if it's good money, people will do the same thing to MnM.
 

Hekotat

FoH nuclear response team
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13,237
Boxing is already prevalent on Alpha. Pocket Healer wives, roomies, buddies at your place, kids etc. Legitimate reasons for a second account coming from a household. If its based around one client per PC - thats a pretty standard check box for your avid boxer, too. We already have ways around that on a single PC, much less the fact that one of those little $300 Puck's can run this game easy enough. (Not that this game doesnt need several optimization passes - which should be a priority anyways.) Buddy playing on Mischief had an entire box crew up and running at server launch with "true box". Things like Multiplicity make that easy mode. If the game is to reach any type of main stream retail, then it cant put the checks and balances type of scripts/programs needed that Secrets put on P99.

So like Sythrak said, it'll be a policing issue from Nick and his crew. Or we can be over zealous with the reporting and then that'll lead to griefing if its automated. I think Kirun is correct about the population being lopsided on the server with boxing, too. Obviously, because it has more boxes. But also because if Johnny and his Wife cant play on the regular server, that means you - the actual, true, solo box guy - that wants to play with them, will have to move to that server as well just to play with them.

But to be fair, you guys are also looking at the game too analytically and comparing it to EverQuest in a one to one fashion too much. Comparatively, the loot drop "LOCATIONS" just arent as "sparse" as EverQuests. Take for example the FBSS. In classic, true classic, EverQuest - your first real haste item was from one spot on the entire server. You and I both know that the FBSS was camped, nonstop, by Necromancers and Enchanters. But in MNM - the haste cloak from Wyrmsbane drops off multiple "rare" mobs there. But thats just "that" zone. As you start to learn more about the loot - then you can see that there are other sources of similar loot in different zones. The loot itself may not be plentiful, but the sources to acquire said loot are plentiful. Wyrmsbane is just adjacent to NH, where probably 95%+ of the player base is starting. If all goes to plan, it wont be that way in retail. But we're also talking about levels 4-16. Which is only a problem for a short period of time if the population continues to start in NH.

As for "bosses" and such at the "raid" level. Watching what I say here so Nick doesnt finger blast my account - boxing is not going to be an issue to an extreme. Some "boss" mobs may fall victim to them, but for the vast majority Ive seen so far - the work needed to not only get to them is exhausting. But the encounters themselves and the chance of uncertainty leaves little room for error that, to be specific, would mostly be encountered by a box crew "only". These arent your typical Temple of Veeshan tank and spank mobs.

You guys are worried about shit that isnt a problem - complain more about vision or stats or something.

That's how you can tell if a game is good or not, if they are critizing the shit out of non-issues or speculation then they have have something special. I'm not saying the game shouldn't have critcism, just that if the bar is that low then damn.
 

Kirun

Buzzfeed Editor
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I think managing 5-10k players is vastly less complicated vs a million+.
Sure, but in that scenario you're looking at 500-1000 concurrent users, less at odd hours. In a highly group focused game with a massive world, you want them to go ultra strict with the banning of box crews on a population of that size? And dedicate what limited resources they have to policing/detecting it?
bold GIF
 

Sythrak

Vyemm Raider
508
1,254
Sure, but in that scenario you're looking at 500-1000 concurrent users, less at odd hours. In a highly group focused game with a massive world, you want them to go ultra strict with the banning of box crews on a population of that size? And dedicate what limited resources they have to policing/detecting it?
bold GIF
As opposed to letting it run wild? Yes.
 
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Pasteton

Vyemm Raider
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They are being intentionally vague but the impression I got is the no box server is to prevent obvious, exorbitant Sam da man / tuco style boxing of 5-6 characters. They can not and likely won’t even try to police dual boxing , even tho I expect a lot of cry babies and Karens constantly reporting any auto following they see (even tho lots of non boxes will auto follow if they’re afk for a piss or something )
 
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Hekotat

FoH nuclear response team
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They've stated more than a few times on stream they have a list of tools to tell if you're multi-boxing or not.
 
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Sythrak

Vyemm Raider
508
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To be fair I wasn't advocating for a gestapo policy. I just don't think it's asking for too much to say, "HEY MAYBE THIS GUY WHO HAS BEEN SELLING RAID LOOT AND HAS 49 CHARACTERS FOLLOWING HIM MIGHT REQUIRE A LITTLE INVESTIGATING". I don't care about the 1-6 boxers.
 
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Kirun

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I thought "raids" in this were like 6-18 characters?

Boxers aren't as obvious as you guys seem to think, most of the time. The only reason the massive, obvious armies get away with it in EQ is because of AoCs. If your raid content doesn't require 20+ characters, it won't be that obvious with 2026 tools/setups.
 

Daidraco

Avatar of War Slayer
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They've stated more than a few times on stream they have a list of tools to tell if you're multi-boxing or not.
One of the devs was talking to me and was passively trying to see if I would lie to him about boxing. You aint slick, bro haha!

Unfortunately things like MacroQuest will make it trivial. There's pretty much scripts to beat every raid encounter in EQ, including the modern non tank and spank versions. The people that are boxing these aren't going to be using Multiplicity.

Given enough time and if it's good money, people will do the same thing to MnM.
Again, you're comparing it to EQ. DPG or Daybreak, what the fuck ever, knows when you're using MQ. They dont care and thats the problem. MQ also has access to an abundant amount of information without even interacting on the kernel level just because the EQ spits out everything into a chat log. MNM, as they just stated earlier - does not have that log available to the player. Second - its not that hard for a program to know that something else is interacting with the kernel. Setup properly, even windows will tell you. That isnt to say that there wont be a program that hacks the kernel undetected eventually, but to say that they just wont have an easy route like MQ does, to abuse.

Also, Im well aware of the power of scripts. People bought access to my mage and spriest combat routines quite frequently in WoW's Legion expansion. Writing a song and dance script like you're talking about is not hard and I get that. However, these devs are seasoned "enough" to not design raid boss content that would be easily scripted. Everything can be scripted in WoW and FFXIV too, for example - but its not because Honorbuddy doesnt exist anymore that people dont do it.

Lastly - this is alpha. We have no idea what they have in store for us when it comes to client protection.
 

Quaid

Trump's Staff
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6,885
ehhhhh unless I'm remembering incorrectly, Shawn has mentioned on stream the revenue opportunities that multi-box users present, so I would not anticipate robust enforcement lol
 
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Kirun

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Which is exactly why DPG has "selective" enforcement of boxers.

In a world where you have a very limited user capacity and operate on a super tight budget, it's laughable to think you'd turn your nose up at potential subscribers, whether they're from a China bot farm or not. See my earlier comments about naivety.
 
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