Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO

Kirun

Buzzfeed Editor
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I look at it the same way that Everquest handled raiding... ala there wasn't any until they added it later. I mean correct me if I am wrong here, but Nagafen and Vox did not exist day one in EQ. They were added later.
You're misremembering history a bit here.

Nagafen and Vox absolutely existed at launch in 1999. They were in SolB and Permafrost from day one. Afterlife had both dragons down by May, roughly two months after release and that was with almost no one having prior MMO experience, no raid templates, no Discord theorycrafting, no 25 years of accumulated genre knowledge. People were literally inventing the playbook in real time.

Fast forward to 2026 and we have twenty-plus years of encounter data, optimized leveling paths, damage modeling, resist breakpoints, spawn tracking tools, and entire cultures built around racing content. You can't compare "we'll add endgame later" today to "EQ figured it out as it went" in 1999. The environment is completely different. Raid content isn't just some optional garnish you sprinkle on after the entree is plated. In an MMO, it shapes progression pacing, class balance, itemization philosophy, guild structures, and long-term retention from the beginning. Even if 80% of players never raid, the mere existence of raid targets influences the entire ecosystem - economy, social hierarchy, aspirational goals, and server identity.

And to your point about not over-promising like Ashes, I agree. Don't sell castles in the sky. But there's a middle ground between wild Kickstarter fantasy and pretending endgame is something you can casually bolt on later. If the core loop is tuned around slow progression, heavy friction, and limited instancing, that directly impacts how endgame will function whether they "define it" now or not.

The genre has matured. Players consume content exponentially faster. Information spreads instantly. Pretending you can defer thinking about endgame until after launch is risky. And not because everyone demands raids on day one, but because the structural decisions you make now determine whether an endgame is even viable later. EQ shipped with aspirational targets immediately, and players devoured them within weeks despite having zero precedent. In 2026, with optimized players and modern expectations, assuming you have years to "figure it out later" feels less like prudence and more like wishful thinking.

EDIT: Looks like Quaid Quaid beat me to the raid target thing
 
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Kaines

Potato Supreme
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Afterlife had both dragons down by May, roughly two months after release
But my dude!!! THESE guys are going to DO IT RIGHT and it will take at least A YEAR before anyone doing end game content!!!1!111!1!!1
 
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Quaid

Trump's Staff
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Even with the ‘hardcore’ vanilla EQ leveling time, the team was having to release content at a break-neck pace to keep those subscription dollars coming in. This all happened before the bazaar, the nexus, or the plane of knowledge were ever implemented, and years before the first ‘instances’ were added to the game.
 
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Pharone

Trakanon Raider
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1,332
You're misremembering history a bit here.

Nagafen and Vox absolutely existed at launch in 1999. They were in SolB and Permafrost from day one. Afterlife had both dragons down by May, roughly two months after release and that was with almost no one having prior MMO experience, no raid templates, no Discord theorycrafting, no 25 years of accumulated genre knowledge. People were literally inventing the playbook in real time.

Fast forward to 2026 and we have twenty-plus years of encounter data, optimized leveling paths, damage modeling, resist breakpoints, spawn tracking tools, and entire cultures built around racing content. You can't compare "we'll add endgame later" today to "EQ figured it out as it went" in 1999. The environment is completely different. Raid content isn't just some optional garnish you sprinkle on after the entree is plated. In an MMO, it shapes progression pacing, class balance, itemization philosophy, guild structures, and long-term retention from the beginning. Even if 80% of players never raid, the mere existence of raid targets influences the entire ecosystem - economy, social hierarchy, aspirational goals, and server identity.

And to your point about not over-promising like Ashes, I agree. Don't sell castles in the sky. But there's a middle ground between wild Kickstarter fantasy and pretending endgame is something you can casually bolt on later. If the core loop is tuned around slow progression, heavy friction, and limited instancing, that directly impacts how endgame will function whether they "define it" now or not.

The genre has matured. Players consume content exponentially faster. Information spreads instantly. Pretending you can defer thinking about endgame until after launch is risky. And not because everyone demands raids on day one, but because the structural decisions you make now determine whether an endgame is even viable later. EQ shipped with aspirational targets immediately, and players devoured them within weeks despite having zero precedent. In 2026, with optimized players and modern expectations, assuming you have years to "figure it out later" feels less like prudence and more like wishful thinking.

EDIT: Looks like Quaid Quaid beat me to the raid target thing
You're right. I misremembered it apparently. I didn't think they added raiding until later.

I don't completely disagree with you here. I just think its nearly as "the world is ending" that the other ones are making it out to be. It's not like their core design sucks such massive dick that they can't add raid content to it.

Am I correct that what you are saying is that the issue is that people are going to get to end game before any raid content is added? If so, you're probably right.