Nirgon
Log Wizard
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why can't some people just play with the time they do have and be happy
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Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO
- Thread starter Flobee
- Start date
why can't some people just play with the time they do have and be happy
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people aren't really concerned about their finances, just pointing out the logical fallacy from the fans.
You guys are pulling the reverse jew meme with this copium numbers. 3k subs? of course they'll get 5k subs. yeah if they get 8-10k subs they should be able to grow it. 15k subs, yeah that sounds right!
No dude, 3k players when its free and they aren't launching on steam and dont have a marketing budget. Expect 300-500 players total when this launches for EA and has a sub attached. This is a amateur fan project, i'm sure they're fine with those numbers, it was always going to be a money pit. and you guys talk as if if you're also good with it but then you guys keep bumping up the numbers.
expect 1 server total and an as needed/temporary/test/dev server prolly a machine run out of their garage. Expect to have to box to play after the first month due to player time zone/level drift.
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Quaid
Trump's Staff
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I used the word ‘achievable’. I did not make a prediction about their sub numbers.
ili
Blackwing Lair Raider
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SWG had a memorable ambience. Just like DAoC had a memorable PvP. There are two types of MMORPGs players here. Those who have/had a love for MMORPGS and those who played EQ and only EQ for decades and nothing else.
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I mean sure, it's "achievable" but you're not going to like how they could get there, ie changing every single retarded ass tedious piece of shit system that you guys are going on and on about how great they are. Not to worry, this dev team seems to prefer nostalgia over player population so no risk that they would actually implement the changes necessary to achieve a healthy population.
"If I don't have to waste an entire evenings playtime doing a corpse recovery from a bad pull then is this is even an MMO?"
"Of course 4 hour boat rides are immersive it gives me time to do my taxes and also forces other players to buy ports off of my wizard box"
"Why wouldn't you be blind as fuck at night? You expect to be able to play when you want to? No when its dark out in game you should head to the inn and cyber my wood elf druid"
"Of course sand storms make the game unplayable, if you get caught in one just hunker down and wait 4 hours, it's called realism duh. What, why would a civilization and city arise in a desert where sand storms are frequent? What....Human beings didn't build cities in deserts until we had irrigation and HVAC? literally not a single one until after the industrial revolution and central air conditioning? Yeah but this is a fantasy world so it doesn't have to make sense, no need for realism here"
I'll give you credit you are one of the few defenders of the game who at least recognizes the logical fallacy. "fuck we're going to need like 5k players per server at all times for this game to work at all" meets "This game isn't designed for you go back to WoW" + "oh wait why aren't their enough players to support grouping in this grouping required game?"
Now all you need to do is admit that the game as designed without a platform (steam) and with no marketing budget at all isn't going to get to 15k players based on what, the mostly negative word of mouth from the FoH forums? Is gaming journalism even a thing anymore (joke, it never was) and certainly no indie mmo news site with less hits than this forum is going to get it over the finish line.
The game is mostly there (modern definition of releasable, at least EA) and its free, its got as many players as it's going to have, and it'll have even less when it costs money and there's a subscription to boot.
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Del
Vyemm Raider
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Mostly negative word of mouth. LOL It's like 4 or 5 of you (half of which have never even played the game) who are just loud and obnoxious as fuck. The majority of people in the thread have enjoyed playing it.
Now I'm really looking forward to EA just so everyone can laugh at how fucking retarded your last couple posts have been. 300-500 total? Yeah, okay. Want to make a wager on that?
Now I'm really looking forward to EA just so everyone can laugh at how fucking retarded your last couple posts have been. 300-500 total? Yeah, okay. Want to make a wager on that?
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skylan
Trakanon Raider
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I'll give it a shot when it hits EA but honestly the first couple tests I played were kind of boring and I don't want to waste time on a character that will be deleted.
I think this is just a game that I love the idea of but won't actually enjoy playing it anymore. I like to log in whenever, I do most of my gaming early as hell in the morning and don't think it's very conducive of a classic mmorpg. Pretty sure it's just pure nostalgia that makes me interested in the game, not actually playing it.
I think this is just a game that I love the idea of but won't actually enjoy playing it anymore. I like to log in whenever, I do most of my gaming early as hell in the morning and don't think it's very conducive of a classic mmorpg. Pretty sure it's just pure nostalgia that makes me interested in the game, not actually playing it.
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Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Sounds like you’ve been trying your best to follow along! I appreciate you taking the time bud. I’m proud of you.
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Quaid
Trump's Staff
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I don’t know why you’re quoting me, but almost none of what you’re criticizing is my opinion on any of this, and i agree with nearly everything you’re saying.
Kirun
Buzzfeed Editor
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One of the "benefits" of not launching on Steam is that player numbers stay conveniently murky. Without public metrics, you can throw out whatever subscriber counts you want, and nobody can really fact-check you. It's a perfect setup for making bold claims without being held accountable.
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Nick
Trakanon Raider
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We'll be hosting our own Steamcharts style page so you can track player numbers.
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Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Kirun
Buzzfeed Editor
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Player engagement and unique hits are the cornerstone metrics for almost every live service game today. They're what publishers, investors, and even communities look at to judge a game's health and longevity. High concurrency means retention, which usually translates into stability. Low numbers, on the other hand, raise alarm bells fast. It's not just about how many people own a game anymore; it's about how many log in consistently, how long they stay, and whether they return tomorrow. In that context, it makes perfect sense that this is such a big focus for MnM.
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Kirun
Buzzfeed Editor
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This game is ultimately going to live or die on the shoulders of its most dedicated loyalists. The real issue is that it's built on a pure subscription model. In 2025, almost no MMO survives long-term on $15/month subs alone. Basically all of them supplement with cosmetics, convenience items, or outright P2W mechanics - even WoW and FFXIV hopped aboard this train years ago and they were 2 of the final "sub" models left in the MMO space. Live service games are just too expensive to keep afloat otherwise, and the challenge only gets steeper if your active base is somewhere in the 3–8k range.
Look at Black Desert Online as a point of comparison: it's a niche game with a fiercely loyal playerbase, typically hovering around 12–20k active for nearly a decade. But BDO also leans heavily into monetization, which allows them to pump out content patches at a steady pace. Without a similar revenue stream beyond subs, I don't see how MnM can sustain any kind of reliable content cadence.
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Gravel
Mr. Poopybutthole
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The problem becomes, this game needs people at all level ranges, and lots of them. Because otherwise you can't do a whole lot solo.
And they're purposefully spreading their players thin.
That's just the EA servers. Then they're going to add more servers for actual launch.
Now consider their numbers. How many of those accounts are people boxing cause it's free? Even if they get 10k players, you divide those up and suddenly you get maybe 3k on a server, with like a few hundred on at peak. For a game advertising itself on its massive world many times the size of EQ.
Kirun
Buzzfeed Editor
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You've nailed one of the core issues. This isn't just about population density, it's about structural design working against itself.
If your game requires warm bodies at all level ranges just to function, then you cannot also afford to fragment the population across a sprawling, oversized world. That's MMO 101. You either build density into your design (fewer zones, tighter hubs, streamlined leveling) or you accept that only mega-pop MMOs can afford "massive" without the world feeling empty. Hell, even EQ at its "peak" had mega zones that felt empty as shit at times - Western Wastes, Karanas, OT, Dreadlands, etc.
And yeah, boxing muddies the waters even more. A guy running three accounts to prop up his own group doesn't equal "healthy population," it equals desperation scaffolding and it's the same issue live EQ and many TLPs deal with. Even if they hit 10k subs, by the time you slice that up across servers, time zones, and playstyles, you're left with ghost towns in a world that's supposed to feel alive.
It's the worst of both worlds: a game that demands population density, while actively designing against it.
If your game requires warm bodies at all level ranges just to function, then you cannot also afford to fragment the population across a sprawling, oversized world. That's MMO 101. You either build density into your design (fewer zones, tighter hubs, streamlined leveling) or you accept that only mega-pop MMOs can afford "massive" without the world feeling empty. Hell, even EQ at its "peak" had mega zones that felt empty as shit at times - Western Wastes, Karanas, OT, Dreadlands, etc.
And yeah, boxing muddies the waters even more. A guy running three accounts to prop up his own group doesn't equal "healthy population," it equals desperation scaffolding and it's the same issue live EQ and many TLPs deal with. Even if they hit 10k subs, by the time you slice that up across servers, time zones, and playstyles, you're left with ghost towns in a world that's supposed to feel alive.
It's the worst of both worlds: a game that demands population density, while actively designing against it.
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I forget the channel, but someone has been streaming btop and grafana charts for the last couple open sessions. It's cool to see, but I don't think anyone here is going to offer you a mountain of cash based on the metrics lol.
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It's a hard problem to solve. FF14 probably? does the best job of keeping their entire world alive. But that's just due to the nature of how they do jobs on a character, and it encourages queuing up for "old" content. Given x amount of new players and churn, the hard requirement to do all the previous content before the latest, etc. But given this isn't a narrative or smash your dailies and log type of game- they have a harder road. New classes and races have been teased, and twinking alts is always a good time, which will help some. But on the other hand, that's kind of a tomorrow problem too. Best bet given the constraints is probably to not expand the world too wide, but to make more dense or vertical (teh deep?) zones that keep the higher levels circulating amongst the lower. Introducing interdependencies amongst the levels would help too, but i can't immediately brain a way that wouldn't be alien.