Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO

Del

Potato del Grande
1,301
1,141
I think you're right in that its just "potential" because Ive rarely seen that charm last for very long and the more Nick & Co. mess with stats - the more I think Charisma is going to affect exactly how long charm lasts. I havent seen any high Charisma + Int + Tanky stats on a high level piece of gear (at least from the drops that @Sloan 's guild has listed, which looks like most everything). But just like stat weights, its still early.

But you are citing something about the Inquisitor and its kind of what I was getting at with an earlier post. They just seem to be more oriented towards a damage dealing class in "theme" than they are a defensive class in "theme."

Shadow Knights and Monks.. I havent played either, but Ive been reading a lot of complaints from both of those classes after yesterdays patch. Mildly curious if its just whiny players, or a legitimate gripe.
Monks definitely need more, but I think it's more to do with the fact that pets are broken and stupidly powerful. SK's are claiming that their pets can tank better than they can which is hilarious considering their pets are weaker versions of the necro pets so I can just imagine how strong necro pets are right now. And level 60 monks are apparently getting raped by level 60 Ele pets in duels. I don't understand why they want pets to be like this. Wouldn't it be more fun for casters if their pets didn't contribute more than 50% of their overall damage so they actually had to press their nukes/dots in order to be useful? And making your entire line up of tank classes become basically useless because pets tank just as well or better than they can is not a good route to take, who cares if the pet classes end up whining that their soloing ability took a hit.

They deserve leeway because this an early attempt at balance, and it's alpha, but hopefully this gets changed soon.
 
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Duskoy

Blackwing Lair Raider
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448
How are you coming to this conclusion out of curiosity?

How much HP does a Paladin have at max level? That amount would be the max HP effectiveness of Lay of Hands.
How much DMG does Harm Touch do at max level?

The Inquisitor charm has both components (dmg output and mitigation) to it.
So it'd be the amount of DMG output a charmed pet puts out in a minute, which I bet is very significant, PLUS the amount of DMG that is mitigated by that MOB not beating on a caster during an 'Oh Shit' moment. If I were a betting man, odds would be in favour of the Inquisitor charm being far superior to either LOH or HT, probably by a couple multiples at 60 second duration.
Yes, leaving a 15 second spell that has a 30 minute cool down in one of your 10 ability/spell slots is very effective. Also I am not sure if its a bug or not but I have cast it and it did not land on the target (which I reported). Unsure if it is intended on being resistable or not. Also we know how Charm tends to go in the end game, a lot of times high level mobs/named cannot be charmed which can lessen its effectiveness in the end game. I don't think that happens with Lay on Hands (and it damn sure lands every time). I have yet to use it at the new upgraded 1 minute duration so maybe my opinion will change.

Max HP effectiveness of Lay on Hands is whatever the highest HP chacter in the games HP is. The spell heals up to 10,000 (unlikely number) on yourself or a friendly target. In a raid setting, dropping an instant Complete Heal on the main tank is invaluable.
 

Daidraco

Avatar of War Slayer
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Gotta love the people that put stuff like this together. Does make you question the "idea" behind a lot of the choices made here since stats were scaled significantly back from the 40-50 point Ogres.
iqsdw6ji5q3g1.png
 
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Hatorade

A nice asshole.
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Gotta love the people that put stuff like this together. Does make you question the "idea" behind a lot of the choices made here since stats were scaled significantly back from the 40-50 point Ogres.
iqsdw6ji5q3g1.png
While I would love to see insane diversity I also get it, sucks to make a race that sucks. AKA not picking dwarf priest in WoW at launch. Maybe they adding insane racials to make up for the stats?
 
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...

Goonsquad Officer
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i also would love sharp divides in stats. an ogre should completely outclass a gnome at being a warrior. naturally that divide is temporary. itemization shores up stat splits and become irrelevant.

I presume they did this because they didn't want to make gnome warrior a 'bad choice'. or even because people in alpha are PLAYING gnome warriors and they were looking down the barrel of a lot of folks suddenly being 'worse' than they were before the change.

But i understand. I'd like it if they do a 'cats on the roof' and add another stat change before ea. maybe rather than having a 55 str warrior...they could do a 45? we'll have to see.

What i REALLY really want is non stat, non clicky racial diferences. I'd like it if gnomes are natively starting with some tinkering. halflings with cooking. dwarves with mining. maybe woodelves can herbalism. maybe they just GET forage. Maybe lizards swim good to start. You could add a lot of fleshing-out of the races to give them little boosts or drawbacks. Utility clicks. maybe goblins can spawn a "junk pile" for nothing, which works like the deployable boxes. i think it would be hilarious if goblins leave trash heaps around.
 

Quaid

Trump's Staff
12,274
7,736
i also would love sharp divides in stats. an ogre should completely outclass a gnome at being a warrior. naturally that divide is temporary. itemization shores up stat splits and become irrelevant.

I presume they did this because they didn't want to make gnome warrior a 'bad choice'. or even because people in alpha are PLAYING gnome warriors and they were looking down the barrel of a lot of folks suddenly being 'worse' than they were before the change.

But i understand. I'd like it if they do a 'cats on the roof' and add another stat change before ea. maybe rather than having a 55 str warrior...they could do a 45? we'll have to see.

What i REALLY really want is non stat, non clicky racial diferences. I'd like it if gnomes are natively starting with some tinkering. halflings with cooking. dwarves with mining. maybe woodelves can herbalism. maybe they just GET forage. Maybe lizards swim good to start. You could add a lot of fleshing-out of the races to give them little boosts or drawbacks. Utility clicks. maybe goblins can spawn a "junk pile" for nothing, which works like the deployable boxes. i think it would be hilarious if goblins leave trash heaps around.

They've said there's no hardcap for stats, so I'm unsure why they felt like they had to make the decision to flatten the stats. In 2-3 years there will be so much gear in the economy nobody will care that Ogres get 10 extra starting STR, they'll just play what they want.
 

Daidraco

Avatar of War Slayer
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Maybe after "years" of development it would be a nothing-burger? But right now it means a lot. I spent 10 minutes partially out of curiosity to see whats out there and also just to do the math. But picking gear solely based on the maximum strength an item has, and the ability for an Ogre Fighter to use it - I came up with around 182 strength.
Average STR per gear piece was roughly 6, with outliers being boots at 3 and primary at 10. Raid gear or not - didnt discriminate. That came up to 115. Add in the 24 points for base str. 20 str points from shaman buff. 15 points for self buff. Lastly I just used the full 8 points from attribute selection all on STR because I figured I was missing something miniscule somewhere, like max bonus from Bard Songs, etc. Just assuming level 60.

I cannot see how someone got to 255 STR based on the often repeated lore that some long term Alpha players have. NOW - on that same note. I noticed as I was looking through every single piece of gear that drops - Stamina is basically on fucking everything. I can see someone getting 255 Stamina, and from what I understand thats the soft cap (from hearsay, could be wrong?) Almost as if Stamina is just a throw away stat that "cant hurt anything" when items are being designed. Or to be more specific, out of all the gear I scoured over - When you're doing point allocation for your character.. You'll benefit over the long term, more from putting points in other stats altogether. If I was to make a Fighter, I would put all my points in STR and DEX for example.

I also took note that there are a few pieces of gear that have stats on them, mostly "saves/resistances" - that go in bag slots, etc. Just an interesting tidbit. Saddlebags are something that I think are interesting, too. To already have items designed for that slot is really putting the "cart before the horse" kind of thing. Ha!
///

Bone Construct at level 20 in Wyrmsbane for a better known example is a level restricted raid boss. I've "heard" that there is a crew that has level 20 characters camped there and log in when he spawns. The real OG degen type shit that we used to do/see/hear about when Naggy/Vox were level restricted. At least thats how I perceive it to be implemented? But thats not what Im really trying to discuss and Im using it at a jumping point for a different discussion:

With the most recent patch thats been talked about in streams, etc. - The amount of EXP to gain levels in the upper levels has been increased. Depending on who you ask, its a dramatic increase. I can see that the idea here is to prolong and stretch out the leveling "journey" as long as possible. With raid mobs like the Bone Construct I mentioned - being something that lower levels can do as an activity. But has any other game implemented a way to stretch out the "journey" outside of just an incredibly high leveling time sink? Alternate Advancement is a thing, but its basically just a different color painted on leveling. ESO has Skill Points - which you get for achieving certain things, exploring certain areas, etc. Is there anything else out there that is basically parallel advancement? (Some other type of advancement that can be done in tandem with leveling.)
 

Quaid

Trump's Staff
12,274
7,736
Maybe after "years" of development it would be a nothing-burger? But right now it means a lot. I spent 10 minutes partially out of curiosity to see whats out there and also just to do the math. But picking gear solely based on the maximum strength an item has, and the ability for an Ogre Fighter to use it - I came up with around 182 strength.
Average STR per gear piece was roughly 6, with outliers being boots at 3 and primary at 10. Raid gear or not - didnt discriminate. That came up to 115. Add in the 24 points for base str. 20 str points from shaman buff. 15 points for self buff. Lastly I just used the full 8 points from attribute selection all on STR because I figured I was missing something miniscule somewhere, like max bonus from Bard Songs, etc. Just assuming level 60.

I cannot see how someone got to 255 STR based on the often repeated lore that some long term Alpha players have. NOW - on that same note. I noticed as I was looking through every single piece of gear that drops - Stamina is basically on fucking everything. I can see someone getting 255 Stamina, and from what I understand thats the soft cap (from hearsay, could be wrong?) Almost as if Stamina is just a throw away stat that "cant hurt anything" when items are being designed. Or to be more specific, out of all the gear I scoured over - When you're doing point allocation for your character.. You'll benefit over the long term, more from putting points in other stats altogether. If I was to make a Fighter, I would put all my points in STR and DEX for example.

I also took note that there are a few pieces of gear that have stats on them, mostly "saves/resistances" - that go in bag slots, etc. Just an interesting tidbit. Saddlebags are something that I think are interesting, too. To already have items designed for that slot is really putting the "cart before the horse" kind of thing. Ha!
///

Bone Construct at level 20 in Wyrmsbane for a better known example is a level restricted raid boss. I've "heard" that there is a crew that has level 20 characters camped there and log in when he spawns. The real OG degen type shit that we used to do/see/hear about when Naggy/Vox were level restricted. At least thats how I perceive it to be implemented? But thats not what Im really trying to discuss and Im using it at a jumping point for a different discussion:

With the most recent patch thats been talked about in streams, etc. - The amount of EXP to gain levels in the upper levels has been increased. Depending on who you ask, its a dramatic increase. I can see that the idea here is to prolong and stretch out the leveling "journey" as long as possible. With raid mobs like the Bone Construct I mentioned - being something that lower levels can do as an activity. But has any other game implemented a way to stretch out the "journey" outside of just an incredibly high leveling time sink? Alternate Advancement is a thing, but its basically just a different color painted on leveling. ESO has Skill Points - which you get for achieving certain things, exploring certain areas, etc. Is there anything else out there that is basically parallel advancement? (Some other type of advancement that can be done in tandem with leveling.)

One example is special gear items that gain xp and become more powerful. Many games have done it. This was most of The Heroes Journey progression.

Another is optional skill trees based on character choices. Ex Vampirism, Were-animal, Deity-based, etc. Pretty sure i remember being a Vampire in EQOA and it giving me a couple abilities.
 
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bolok

Trakanon Raider
1,323
734
They mentioned somewhere they're thinking about specializing in stuff as an option. Was pretty murky, but it would be cool if you could somehow specialize in 2h for example. Little weird they didn't break those out into their own skills. But I'd be down for that being an option eventually.

i also would love sharp divides in stats. an ogre should completely outclass a gnome at being a warrior. naturally that divide is temporary. itemization shores up stat splits and become irrelevant.

I presume they did this because they didn't want to make gnome warrior a 'bad choice'. or even because people in alpha are PLAYING gnome warriors and they were looking down the barrel of a lot of folks suddenly being 'worse' than they were before the change.

But i understand. I'd like it if they do a 'cats on the roof' and add another stat change before ea. maybe rather than having a 55 str warrior...they could do a 45? we'll have to see.

What i REALLY really want is non stat, non clicky racial diferences. I'd like it if gnomes are natively starting with some tinkering. halflings with cooking. dwarves with mining. maybe woodelves can herbalism. maybe they just GET forage. Maybe lizards swim good to start. You could add a lot of fleshing-out of the races to give them little boosts or drawbacks. Utility clicks. maybe goblins can spawn a "junk pile" for nothing, which works like the deployable boxes. i think it would be hilarious if goblins leave trash heaps around.
I'm more for racial stat choices being meaningful basically permanently too. But people whine... Yeah that int probably isn't going to be super useful for a gnome war. But who knows- maybe there will be some gnome only gear that can convert some of that into resists or some other useful stat that doesn't completely nullify the "downside"

That said, and it's not on the chart up above. There are racial resist traits too. Some of them start with a pretty rough negative resist. And there is an active for each race too. Eg gnomes get slippery, and you can still choose magic resist. Which is pretty handy, but they really need to get these onto the other bar. Otherwise only monks and archers are likely gonna have room on the spell bar for the clickies.

They're still waffling pretty hard on infra/ultra. Given the other options on that trait tier, still seems like a no brainer- but I imagine there will be some spicier choices at some point.
 

bolok

Trakanon Raider
1,323
734
Im not sure if it applies to all procs, but I know it does affect spellblade procs. But it sounded like the percentage in difference is relatively small for a large amount of INT.
Would take a ton of mathing, but you can get max int gnome spellblades vs dwarf ones with 19 starting and see what it looks like.