Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO

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your_mum

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IP address blocking; this "prevents" even multiple computers from boxing... they wont do this because it will prevent sales and there are legitimate reasons (i.e., roommates) as i imagine they wont be doing an "exemption" list lol... its also easily circumvented

i didnt hear nick say that, but someone said they'll prevent it so it's 1 pc only... which can be circumvented with extra pc's... but more likely, the preventive measures will be bypassed like mq2 does...

but there's not gonna be a mq2 type botting program for a bit, maybe someone working on it now idk... so id imagine it'd be rare to see a guy boxing more than 1 group
 
Hekotat

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your_mum said:
IP address blocking; this "prevents" even multiple computers from boxing... they wont do this because it will prevent sales and there are legitimate reasons (i.e., roommates) as i imagine they wont be doing an "exemption" list lol... its also easily circumvented

i didnt hear nick say that, but someone said they'll prevent it so it's 1 pc only... which can be circumvented with extra pc's... but more likely, the preventive measures will be bypassed like mq2 does...

but there's not gonna be a mq2 type botting program for a bit, maybe someone working on it now idk... so id imagine it'd be rare to see a guy boxing more than 1 group
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In one of the previous streams he specifically mentioned that if you plan on having more than 1 account from the same IP address you will need to specify so on a form, likely during account/subscription setup if I had to guess.
 
Tuco

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What's funny about the boxing conversation is that there are few games with the kind of simple but group-required gameplay where boxing is extremely advantageous. Someone like me that plays EQ to box, rather than boxes to play EQ doesn't have much to choose from. As in, idgaf about the rewards in EQ or farming anything, I literally just want to box. Party RPGs designed to control a group aren't nearly as engaging as EQ, and the recent dominance of boring ass turn-based Bingo-RPG gameplay like BG3 and all the Japanese games aren't even close.

Meanwhile, games like GW2 would be stupid to box for numerous reasons including scaling encounters in open world, movement-driven gameplay, anti-clumping mechanics and non-combat interactions.

 
Mrniceguy

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Kirun said:
All a "no-box" server really does is make the environment even more lucrative for organized boxing and RMT crews. They already have endless ways to evade enforcement, so the restriction doesn't meaningfully affect them at all. What it does do is kneecap the average player who might otherwise box a couple characters legitimately. The result is less competition for the people running full crews, more control over camps and raid targets, and higher prices across the board. We've seen this exact pattern play out repeatedly on EQ TLPs, yet people still convince themselves that "True Box" somehow solves the problem. In practice, it doesn't prevent boxing - it just consolidates it into fewer hands and makes everything more expensive for everyone else.
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There is already plenty of WoW/EQ P Servers that have done the No-Box approach and been extremely successful with it.
 
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Mrniceguy

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Kirun said:
Which ones?
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Not going to waste my time arguing specifics ones when i already know the response i'm going is a "well ackchyually"

The target audience for this game is dad gamers that have tons of disposable income. It only takes a few dedicated employees to make boxing invisible and there is plenty of dad gamers that would pay an extra 5 bucks a month to play on a server like that and if you think otherwise you're retarded.
 
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GuardianX

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Daidraco said:
No where did I say anything about it being difficult to play or “hard” to play. The subject was scripting and how it would be difficult to box. Why youre flipping the “script” and trying to show experience off of level 30 content, as you said, when I specifically mentioned raid mobs at max level is beyond me. But dont get upset bro. I believe you that youve done it all. There was never a single doubt.

If anything, you mentioned one of the most annoying parts of the game “to me”. Having to dispel and cure fucking everything. Even at the teens, you can visibly tell the difference in mana saved vs spent when it comes to curing diseases, poisons etc. not just the super obvious fear dispel.
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Flipping the script? What are you talking about, they are the same script, difficulty to play directly links to difficulty to box. if a game is easily played then it's easily boxed...it's a correlation.

Please, name me an encounter (thats non-level locked / boss mob) that will present a challenge to a boxer (Obviously not a MQ2 boxer).

Dervishes in GF that no one kills?

Grimtide?

Upper Samsung?

Almost every camp for gear (which is generally where you'll find 95% of boxers) in the game is just +1 harderer (in hits and spell damage) vs prior tier camps OR straight up RNG in terms of being in the right palce at the right time. None of them add new mechanics.
 
Daidraco

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GuardianX said:
Flipping the script? What are you talking about, they are the same script, difficulty to play directly links to difficulty to box. if a game is easily played then it's easily boxed...it's a correlation.

Please, name me an encounter (thats non-level locked / boss mob) that will present a challenge to a boxer (Obviously not a MQ2 boxer).

Dervishes in GF that no one kills?

Grimtide?

Upper Samsung?

Almost every camp for gear (which is generally where you'll find 95% of boxers) in the game is just +1 harderer (in hits and spell damage) vs prior tier camps OR straight up RNG in terms of being in the right palce at the right time. None of them add new mechanics.
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If you're not going to read the front of the conversation, then Im not going to entertain your mind numbing argument. I literally said raid targets, no matter how you try to down rank them. Just because you're moving the goal post does not mean I have to accommodate you. Ffs.
 
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Pasteton

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They’ve reiterated, and confidently so, multiple times that they have all the tools they need to tell if someone is boxing. So you can choose to believe them or not but these guys so far haven’t been huge bullshitters, this isn’t Joppa or Brad running this.

However, assuming they do find and penalize boxers at a high rate, the penalty may be something as simple as a warning and then being transferred to the box- allowed server, which won’t result in nearly as much income lost than banning multiple accounts outright.
 
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Boxes not being blatant and rubbing it your face is the initial gift here. If they have to be so careful that it's plausible they arnt boxing.... that's something
 
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hEKK

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Tuco said:
What's funny about the boxing conversation is that there are few games with the kind of simple but group-required gameplay where boxing is extremely advantageous. Someone like me that plays EQ to box, rather than boxes to play EQ doesn't have much to choose from. As in, idgaf about the rewards in EQ or farming anything, I literally just want to box. Party RPGs designed to control a group aren't nearly as engaging as EQ, and the recent dominance of boring ass turn-based Bingo-RPG gameplay like BG3 and all the Japanese games aren't even close.

Meanwhile, games like GW2 would be stupid to box for numerous reasons including scaling encounters in open world, movement-driven gameplay, anti-clumping mechanics and non-combat interactions.

Click to expand...

We need a mmoCrpg
 
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Flobee

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Tuco said:
What's funny about the boxing conversation is that there are few games with the kind of simple but group-required gameplay where boxing is extremely advantageous. Someone like me that plays EQ to box, rather than boxes to play EQ doesn't have much to choose from. As in, idgaf about the rewards in EQ or farming anything, I literally just want to box.
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I came pretty close to pursuing something very much like this as a project. Party based MMO / RPG style combat with built in tools to "box" the characters, so designed from the ground up for this style of play essentially. I guess yea, a CRPG thats plays like an old school MMO. Decided it was probably not very viable, or at least not something I was confident I could make fun, but I don't think its a dead idea. I think theres a lot of interesting design space there if anyone ever decides to give it a try. Would be especially fun if multiplayer was an option, can have a buddy split boxes with you, or just play a single character while you box the rest. Drop-in / out without friction.

My gut says that more old school style direct connect co-op games will make a comeback over the next decade as the option for small indie style developer continue to expand. Its an achievable form of multiplayer for small teams and still allows for a ton of cool options like this. Just need about 3x the hours per day and maybe I'd try it out.
 
Kithani

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hEKK said:
We need a mmoCrpg
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ryan reynolds hd GIF


CRPG games are fun without having to “compete” with sweaty nerds for content IMO. Even when I 6 boxed EQ it never felt like playing a real MMO in hindsight
 
GuardianX

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Tuco said:
What's funny about the boxing conversation is that there are few games with the kind of simple but group-required gameplay where boxing is extremely advantageous. Someone like me that plays EQ to box, rather than boxes to play EQ doesn't have much to choose from. As in, idgaf about the rewards in EQ or farming anything, I literally just want to box. Party RPGs designed to control a group aren't nearly as engaging as EQ, and the recent dominance of boring ass turn-based Bingo-RPG gameplay like BG3 and all the Japanese games aren't even close.

Meanwhile, games like GW2 would be stupid to box for numerous reasons including scaling encounters in open world, movement-driven gameplay, anti-clumping mechanics and non-combat interactions.

Click to expand...


Whats that software that boxers are using recently?

not ISboxer, something different, it's similar to ISboxer that it has tiny screens but it's, new?
 
GuardianX

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Daidraco said:
If you're not going to read the front of the conversation, then Im not going to entertain your mind numbing argument.
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this statement?

Daidraco said:
As for "bosses" and such at the "raid" level. Watching what I say here so Nick doesnt finger blast my account - boxing is not going to be an issue to an extreme. Some "boss" mobs may fall victim to them, but for the vast majority Ive seen so far - the work needed to not only get to them is exhausting. But the encounters themselves and the chance of uncertainty leaves little room for error that, to be specific, would mostly be encountered by a box crew "only". These arent your typical Temple of Veeshan tank and spank mobs.
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Or are you talking further back in the boxing discussion because the skim I did on that was mainly people questioning if and why box crews would be allowed and their impacts on the servers. No one was questioning their ability to do content because that's a dumb question because there is a precedent of people doing more complex encounters without cheating.

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Daidraco said:
No matter how you try to down rank them. Just because you're moving the goal post does not mean I have to accommodate you.
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I'm sure there is some content that I don't know about, but would YOU say that the content is (or is going to be) more complex then WoW raids or groups? Because people box WoW without bots and all the content in WoW and EQ and every other game I've ever seen people box in has been more complex than MNM.

The primary reason I didn't add "raid targets" to the list wasn't the challenge and, for open world targets, was that there are gunna SO be many guilds after those targets and at most you may try to do something like a sam-da-man and full box DPS crew it so you get kill credit but as for the question of "Will someone box crew them ALL?" 100%, without question. Someone will also roll into some open world target against Rampage, or Thats MNM baby, or some other uber guild with their box crew and attempt to steal stuff from them, without question.

"Complex" Mechanics?

Dispeling? easily done.
Mechanics? Relatively easily done. Done in far more complex games.
CC? Easily done
Pulling? Easily done.

Outside of those things, all other things are so basic they are hardly worth mentioning.

I dunno what to say, I guess if MNM is mechanically complex for you, cool? For 95% of people going from EQ boxing to MNM boxing? not even remotely going to be complex.
 
Brodhi

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So I don't get it, is this game designed so badly it is going to crash and burn in a month because it is just nostalgia and no one actually wants to play a game with 20 year old design philosophies, or is the game going to be so wildly successful that Chinese botters are going to invest heavily into it and will ruin the experience for everyone. Just trying to keep up with the thread.
 
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