Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO

Kirun

Buzzfeed Editor
21,470
18,639
Ok yea I’m very aware of all that. I do think plat for access is significantly different than xyz ‘tokens’, gear score, or access/key quests. I’m unaware of any other game that uses that system.
In games like EVE Online, Ultima Online, and Albion Online, access to higher-tier zones comes with a very real cost, just not always in the form of a direct fee. The risk of losing your gear, ships, or even territory effectively functions as a currency sink. At the end of the day, you're still "paying" to participate in that content. It's just happening through risk and replacement costs rather than an upfront toll. Similarly, in Anarchy Online, the Shadowlands had a kind of "ongoing" economic cost. Players needed to constantly invest in things like nano kits, gear upkeep, etc. just to sustain themselves in those environments. Again, not a literal entry fee but functionally very close.

Those systems are all operating on the same underlying principle though, which is that access to high-end content is tied to economic investment. The difference is just in presentation. Those games obfuscate the cost through mechanics like risk, attrition, or maintenance, rather than making players pay directly for entry.

That said, in EVE, UO, and Albion, there's also an added layer of player-driven control. Guilds or alliances can dominate certain areas and effectively charge for access, either directly or indirectly. In those cases, the "fee" becomes part of the emergent gameplay and player economy. What MnM seems to be doing is stepping in as the middleman by formalizing that cost into a system rather than leaving it entirely in players' hands. This does remove some degree of player agency and emergent interaction, but it also arguably reduces friction, conflict issues, organizational headaches, etc.

At the end of the day, though, Khane Khane is right. There's nothing especially groundbreaking here. It's not a new concept so much as a more explicit and structured version of systems that have already existed for decades.
 

General Antony

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
1,394
6,605
Consumable farming for wow raids wasn't bad enough, now we need to just pay cash to get into the dungeon. Another few years and it'll be swipe the credit card.
 
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Grim1

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
4,982
7,008
Bah, just saw that the Troll race may not be available in EA. Bummer. Was counting on being a Troll SK. Played a goblin SK over the weekend. That was kind of fun. Guess I'm going to be green and mean now.
 
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bolok

Trakanon Raider
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826
Ea is gonna be a couple years long. They’ll be in ea . Just not at launch.
Gobbies are great. Their fd flop and cry make me giggle. Easily best option for sk currently.
 
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Quaid

Trump's Staff
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7,129
In games like EVE Online, Ultima Online, and Albion Online, access to higher-tier zones comes with a very real cost, just not always in the form of a direct fee. The risk of losing your gear, ships, or even territory effectively functions as a currency sink. At the end of the day, you're still "paying" to participate in that content. It's just happening through risk and replacement costs rather than an upfront toll. Similarly, in Anarchy Online, the Shadowlands had a kind of "ongoing" economic cost. Players needed to constantly invest in things like nano kits, gear upkeep, etc. just to sustain themselves in those environments. Again, not a literal entry fee but functionally very close.

Those systems are all operating on the same underlying principle though, which is that access to high-end content is tied to economic investment. The difference is just in presentation. Those games obfuscate the cost through mechanics like risk, attrition, or maintenance, rather than making players pay directly for entry.

That said, in EVE, UO, and Albion, there's also an added layer of player-driven control. Guilds or alliances can dominate certain areas and effectively charge for access, either directly or indirectly. In those cases, the "fee" becomes part of the emergent gameplay and player economy. What MnM seems to be doing is stepping in as the middleman by formalizing that cost into a system rather than leaving it entirely in players' hands. This does remove some degree of player agency and emergent interaction, but it also arguably reduces friction, conflict issues, organizational headaches, etc.

At the end of the day, though, Khane Khane is right. There's nothing especially groundbreaking here. It's not a new concept so much as a more explicit and structured version of systems that have already existed for decades.


Ya I don't think I ever claimed they were 'groundbreaking' anything. I've played about a dozen MMORPGs a significant amount, over half of them to endgame, and I've personally never seen an endgame access mechanism quite like the one we're speculating on. Claiming it's so common I should've run across it is a stretch on his part.

Yes I am aware that currency sinks exist in the endgame content of many games. However, I can think of no endgame PVE access mechanism that can be satisfied through so many different pathways. If in-game currency is indeed the access method, the MNM player(s) could achieve access by engaging in almost any in-game activity at all. They could feasibly sell ports, buffs, or rezzes, or engage in merchant arbitrage, player-to-player sales, or simply spend their time gathering and vendoring tradeskill materials. They could do this at level 1 without a quest to complete or a minimum gearing level to attain. All of a sudden poopsocking specific access quest drops becomes impossible, and the developers essentially eliminate a major problem in a fully contested world.

I never played Albion Online, but based on what I've read the HCE Map system looks similar in some ways. Potentially a really interesting idea for MNM. We'll see if this is what they're thinking.
 
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Mrniceguy

Blackwing Lair Raider
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Ya I don't think I ever claimed they were 'groundbreaking' anything. I've played about a dozen MMORPGs a significant amount, over half of them to endgame, and I've personally never seen an endgame access mechanism quite like the one we're speculating on. Claiming it's so common I should've run across it is a stretch on his part.

It's also pretty much industry standard for ARPGs to have this kind of system as the endgame. It could easily be translated to an MMO.
 

Kuro

Karazhan Raider
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32,582
Not sure how I feel about Rogues having utility and mechanics, I'm here to press Backstab every 8 seconds and listen to podcasts
 
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TairyGreene

Lord Nagafen Raider
234
184
Bah, just saw that the Troll race may not be available in EA. Bummer. Was counting on being a Troll SK. Played a goblin SK over the weekend. That was kind of fun. Guess I'm going to be green and mean now.
It would be cool if they offered a one time race change option when a new race gets added. I imagine there will be quite a few loyal launch players who would pick troll if they could.
 
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forehead

Trakanon Raider
270
582
Your faction is set to default troll. After a long questline and a powerful enchanter permanently enchants you. Only way to tell you aren’t a ‘real’ troll is your eye color.
 

Woefully Inept

Silver Baron of the Realm
10,002
41,642
Not sure how I feel about Rogues having utility and mechanics, I'm here to press Backstab every 8 seconds and listen to podcasts
Man same with clerics. I want to press a heal and sit for 10-15 seconds at a time. Fuck all the people clamoring for a mele cleric that constantly presses buttons. And stance dancing/fire dot flopping monks. Pure trash!
 
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gauze

Molten Core Raider
1,186
432
Not sure how I feel about Rogues having utility and mechanics, I'm here to press Backstab every 8 seconds and listen to podcasts
add in backstabbing mesd mobs and you already fit in to what majority of parties look like anyways. 1 out of every 10 rogues feels like they do the things with the stuffs, I feel like its more common to see someone assume attack position but not actually position to attack.
 

Quaid

Trump's Staff
12,535
7,129
Man same with clerics. I want to press a heal and sit for 10-15 seconds at a time. Fuck all the people clamoring for a mele cleric that constantly presses buttons. And stance dancing/fire dot flopping monks. Pure trash!

The joy of healing is snatching victory from defeat. It's why Complete Heal felt so good on Clerics in EQ, and later Shamans and Druids in Velious. You were rewarded with mana efficiency for timing your CH with how much DMG your tank was taking. Acting on your knowledge, experience, awareness, and intuition was really satisfying gameplay. It turned a game of HP whack-a-mole into a more skillful feeling exercise, while retaining the cozy vibe of EQ grouping. I'm hoping they add something to healers in MNM that makes your heals more efficient/effective the lower the HP of your target is.

They should look to make healing feel more risk/reward driven, not more active with weird attempts to get them to melee.
 
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bolok

Trakanon Raider
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826
It would be cool if they offered a one time race change option when a new race gets added. I imagine there will be quite a few loyal launch players who would pick troll if they could.
Yeah. We'll get new servers for the new races if you want a "fresh start." That's about it. Gobbos and gnomes being awesome aside, future races have options that I would easily choose instead.

Seeing deep gnome animation teases makes them look so fun.
 

Hekotat

FoH nuclear response team
13,175
13,610
Man same with clerics. I want to press a heal and sit for 10-15 seconds at a time. Fuck all the people clamoring for a mele cleric that constantly presses buttons. And stance dancing/fire dot flopping monks. Pure trash!

I mean, you can play however you want. They are simply giving people options. You can choose what skills are on your hotbar.