Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO

TJT · 2026-06-05T19:30:09-0400

moonarchia said:
Totally didn't predict this one. And guess what? Even if the items are nodrop, that guy is still going to monopolize the camp so people still have to pay him to get it.

This is already common in EQ TLPs with the Plane of Fear. Again, 30 years of game experience and metagaming means that Necromancers can solo in there with little risk then sit around selling loot rights to no drop class armor for Krono. This happens consistently.

No reason to think it won't happen here if they don't engineer it out of the game.

moonarchia · 2026-06-05T20:59:44-0400

TJT said:
This is already common in EQ TLPs with the Plane of Fear. Again, 30 years of game experience and metagaming means that Necromancers can solo in there with little risk then sit around selling loot rights to no drop class armor for Krono. This happens consistently.

No reason to think it won't happen here if they don't engineer it out of the game.

Yup. But people got all butthurt when this was pointed out as something the devs needed to address in MnM. Oh well. Hopefully they can work it out before they do whatever they are calling it when they start charging money.

Flipmode · 2026-06-05T21:09:21-0400

Its looking like Adrullan Online Adventures is gonna be the game for me. I am all for some grinding, but dragging my balls across glass just because "old school" is just not appealing. Tedium isn't gameplay. Time sinks are one thing, but we don't have to keep reinventing the wheel in 2026. There is a ton of room between OG EQ and WoW. Watching these devs make the same mistakes that EQ made and saying "that feels right" is kinda crazy. Enjoy I guess.

jayrebb · 2026-06-06T04:00:52-0400

Hekotat said:
I'm sure it also has to do with high level players camping named spawns for 72 hours straight and not letting appropriate level players have a shot at them. We just ran into this a few weeks ago, player didn't log out for 3 days.

If these greedy fuckers dont cut it out we are going to end up with a lot of no drop items.

From my understanding GMs are super powerful in MNM. Some calls GMs have made have come up in Discord and they sound fairly powerful in their ability to broadly interpret the PNP/Terms of service.

FTE/camps and so forth will be arbitrated by GMs. That's the direction they are going in. They just haven't made it fully official yet. But if you look at some of the calls GMs have made they are being given a lot of autonomy, which I think will only be expanded on.

GMs are broad and powerful, similar to Dungeon Masters in DND seems to be the direction they are going in.

GMs were quite powerful in 1999-2000 EverQuest so there is precedent. They just have to make sure the GMs are good people doing the best they can to be fair and it will enhance the oldschool player experience.

moonarchia · 2026-06-06T04:12:29-0400

jayrebb said:
They just have to make sure the GMs are good people doing the best they can to be fair and it will enhance the oldschool player experience.

So we will see GMs handing out loot and spawning raids for their friends (the ones that pay, anyways) on day 1?

jayrebb · 2026-06-06T04:18:16-0400

moonarchia said:
So we will see GMs handing out loot and spawning raids for their friends (the ones that pay, anyways) on day 1?

I wouldn't expect anything too crazy as this entire game is designed and governed by Discord. Someone can't even breathe without telling Shawn about it and arguing ad hoc about the most inane shit all day. Just check a few of the chat channels. A corrupt GM would last all of a day. There's already people angry on the PvP server over the most mundane PNP decisions.

moonarchia · 2026-06-06T04:19:44-0400

jayrebb said:
I wouldn't expect anything too crazy as this entire game is designed and governed by Discord. Someone can't even breathe without telling Shawn about it and arguing ad hoc about the most inane shit all day. Just check a few of the chat channels. A corrupt GM would last all of a day. There's already people angry on the PvP server over the most mundane PNP decisions.

Hard pass. I am over everyone and everything needing to have a Discord server.

jayrebb · 2026-06-06T04:28:11-0400

moonarchia said:
Hard pass. I am over everyone and everything needing to have a Discord server.

I'll save you the time and give you an example.

SoW discussion has been going on a day-to-day basis for the last 5 months. Flat-circle arguments occur weekly on whether to take SoW out or how to nerf it.

When people talk about "making the same mistakes EverQuest made in 1999", there is more to that. It's not just about making the same mistakes per se.

There is a lot of EverQuest design that is being re-litigated for the first time.

No one questioned the power of SoW in 1999-2002 Classic Everquest. This was a non-issue. They added a chase item, called Journeyman's Boots, and called it a day.

What is going on in MNM is not "Should we add Journeyman's Boots" discussion, rather the discussion is "Should SoW be completely removed from the game", "Should SoW drop in combat", and discussions about how SoW is unfair and ruining the game. And again, this is one of the most prevalent discussions with developers on a daily basis. At no point do people take a month off from this discussion and there is no majority lobby that is suggesting to add a chase item to alleviate the problem of SoW being more powerful than it was in Classic Everquest.

moonarchia · 2026-06-06T05:01:37-0400

jayrebb said:
I'll save you the time and give you an example.

SoW discussion has been going on a day-to-day basis for the last 5 months. Flat-circle arguments occur weekly on whether to take SoW out or how to nerf it.

When people talk about "making the same mistakes EverQuest made in 1999", there is more to that. It's not just about making the same mistakes per se.

There is a lot of EverQuest design that is being re-litigated for the first time.

No one questioned the power of SoW in 1999-2002 Classic Everquest. This was a non-issue. They added a chase item, called Journeyman's Boots, and called it a day.

What is going on in MNM is not "Should we add Journeyman's Boots" discussion, rather the discussion is "Should SoW be completely removed from the game", "Should SoW drop in combat", and discussions about how SoW is unfair and ruining the game. And again, this is one of the most prevalent discussions with developers on a daily basis. At no point do people take a month off from this discussion and there is no majority lobby that is suggesting to add a chase item to alleviate the problem of SoW being more powerful than it was in Classic Everquest.

I mean, if they are even entertaining that shit, then the result is going to be worse than I had figured it might be. The super turbo retardo autists that have tanked dozens of games are not the best folks to be listening to if you want to make a successful game.

Siliconemelons · 2026-06-06T06:27:46-0400

Going by the issues here expressed and their recent changes etc.

The problem is, they are all liberal creative types, and I don’t necessarily mean political left liberals.

These are the people with creative and skill talent to make the things, do the code, do the art, do the story- but they have no strong “conservative” person-s keeping them in check.

Liberal mindset, while the driving creative force also wants to break / breakdown or change (destroy) set things. It is why they absolutely just could not keep classes based off of standard high fantasy then spice them up a little and perfect the system. This is just one example. The visual is another- you can see elements pushing outward from “classic 1999 EQ look” and its just “revisions” as they “work on things” … okay.

The drift from their expressed starting motive and set “goal” or “game type” is drastically apparent - and they do have every right to do so- but the fans and consumers have every right to call them out.

They need someone, most likely a few, people that are “not creative” that are “in charge” - but seeing as this co was grown out of liberals - it’s doubtful they would bring in someone to do this “i cant be managed by someone who can’t do XYZ themselves! “

Gravel · 2026-06-06T09:44:19-0400

moonarchia said:
I mean, if they are even entertaining that shit, then the result is going to be worse than I had figured it might be. The super turbo retardo autists that have tanked dozens of games are not the best folks to be listening to if you want to make a successful game.

Seems like we get a minor variation of those people here who just want the most painful possible mechanics.

It's not a real MMO unless you have to spend 23 hours a day playing. Which is something I think

Kirun got to in a recent post, where it seems people are confusing difficulty for time spent in game. These people don't actually want a difficult game, they just want one where they're "the best" because they spend the most amount of time logged in.

If it takes 3 hours just to get to a camp, that's not difficult. But if you've got the time to do it, you're suddenly top dog just because no one else can deal with that kind of bullshit.

Kithani · 2026-06-06T09:59:57-0400

Hm o actually respect their overnight announcement

“Tradeskills suck, we know they suck, we’re not gonna focus on them right now, we’ll redo them by 1.0”

Gravel · 2026-06-06T10:37:18-0400

Are they still sticking to their EA launch in a few months? It seems like they're basically doing a complete redesign at this point.

It's starting to give me the same vibes that Ashes of Creation did where you're just like...what the fuck are these people doing?

Flobee · 2026-06-06T10:47:44-0400

Gravel said:
Are they still sticking to their EA launch in a few months? It seems like they're basically doing a complete redesign at this point.

It's starting to give me the same vibes that Ashes of Creation did where you're just like...what the fuck are these people doing?

I'm a pretty big white knight for the game, but the hard shift since they canned Nick has me taking a step back for sure. Feels a lot like someone has seized a lot of influence and changing things dramatically.

Maybe the game is close enough to a success that the "real professionals" have shown up to fix everything, like they've fixed the genre over the past decade or two. Hope not

Woefully Inept · 2026-06-06T10:50:37-0400

LMAO yes a game that received millions of dollars of funding and had 200+ employees is totally the same as a game that has received no public funding and has a team of under 30 (last I checked).

Del · 2026-06-06T10:53:02-0400

What's the hard shift? The only new things are the changes/additions to the classes that pretty much everyone agreed Nick did a fairly poor or mediocre job on, that items need to matter more, and the acknowledgement that tradeskills have some problems and need to be fixed. The TTK stuff, camping, a non-instanced, open world has been in the plans the entire time.

Woefully Inept · 2026-06-06T10:58:27-0400

All I know is once Nick got shitcanned we started getting a LOT more information on future changes. They should have booted him sooner.

Flobee · 2026-06-06T11:04:45-0400

Del said:
What's the hard shift? The only new things are the changes/additions to the classes that pretty much everyone agreed Nick did a fairly poor or mediocre job on, that items need to matter more, and the acknowledgement that tradeskills have some problems and need to be fixed. The TTK stuff, camping, a non-instanced, open world has been in the plans the entire time.

Big thing for me is the complete re-haul on classes. Not arguing they were in a good state or that Nick was doing it well, but I'm not sure I like a lot of what I'm seeing so far. I hope it will be great and I'll definitely give it a shot as the classes come out, just had a poor initial impression. I really like the TTK changes etc though. I think giving GM's the ability to remove items from people's inventories is going to end up being a really bad move and hope they go a different route on this. I'd rather see encounter locking than the full lawyer-questing that they're setting themselves up for. I think we've all seen the result of giving people that kind of power in these games.

Its 100% a feels thing at the end of the day, which is obviously subjective. I've found that my impression of how the game is going changed when they removed Nick and their style of communication changed as well. I'm not convinced that its bad, but neither am I convinced that its good. I've followed this game from the very beginning and it WAS a shift for sure. My entire point is just that I find myself less engaged with what they're doing until I can see myself what they're actually doing and how it plays out.

Also I have a low opinion of the decision-making of game industry "professionals" which they seem to have recruited. A+ skills but questionable decision making IMO

Pasteton · 2026-06-06T13:06:07-0400

From what I’ve gathered from lots of streams and some devs besides Shawn too is that Nick accomplished far far less than Shawn thought he was doing, and Shawn, not really being a project manager as his primary skill, didn’t realize this until very late into development. The post until October was definitely related but I wouldn’t be surprised if another delay is coming. The advantage /disadvantage of not taking money from folks is Shawn has less pressure to rush and he definitely seems the type who wouldn’t, so another delay seems realistic. But tho he’s not financially pressured, I can’t imagine some of the people who they’ve taken in would want to get paid soon

jayrebb · 2026-06-06T15:12:18-0400

Flobee said:
Big thing for me is the complete re-haul on classes. Not arguing they were in a good state or that Nick was doing it well, but I'm not sure I like a lot of what I'm seeing so far. I hope it will be great and I'll definitely give it a shot as the classes come out, just had a poor initial impression. I really like the TTK changes etc though. I think giving GM's the ability to remove items from people's inventories is going to end up being a really bad move and hope they go a different route on this. I'd rather see encounter locking than the full lawyer-questing that they're setting themselves up for. I think we've all seen the result of giving people that kind of power in these games.

Its 100% a feels thing at the end of the day, which is obviously subjective. I've found that my impression of how the game is going changed when they removed Nick and their style of communication changed as well. I'm not convinced that its bad, but neither am I convinced that its good. I've followed this game from the very beginning and it WAS a shift for sure. My entire point is just that I find myself less engaged with what they're doing until I can see myself what they're actually doing and how it plays out.

Also I have a low opinion of the decision-making of game industry "professionals" which they seem to have recruited. A+ skills but questionable decision making IMO

I would have liked to see Nick get someone to help guide him and finish the work he started (which was moving too slowly, and likely the reason he was canned)

The full re-envisioned classes (which amounts to a combat overhaul) blindsided everyone, as it's a change to core gameplay, which was completely unexpected, regardless of how "unfinished" classes were.

Monsters and Memories (Project_N) - Old School Indie MMO

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