Mount & Blade - A Clash of Kings 2.0 Releasing March 28th!

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Azziane_sl

shitlord
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Zyke_sl said:
I've been playing Pendor on and off for years. I know about that system but it has major faults. Your archers can ONLY stand in a line, which means a lot of them are way out of position when you have more than a small group because the line gets so long. You also cant make custom formations to make sure your shield guys are always in front, it seems random how they line up/spawn. If you're against an aggressive opponent with cavalry it can also be difficult to form up in time before they hit you, especially on bad terrain.
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I use multiple groups for archers. At least one bowmen with fire at will and crossbows behind them on hold to get one good volley. It rarely breaks a cavalry charge and having just more cavalry or heavy infantry would probably work better but it's fun to setup.

The game needs a map overview before combat where you can take your time and setup your troups - I think there is that in the TW games. Before combat you get some time to position. That would work for MB too I think and would be ways easier than anything the OTS/1st person view could offer.
 
wamphyr

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I am still ashtonished that some of you guys apreciate the strategic map gameplay. Bah...
 
Gavinmad

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Guess it's time to fire up PoP again, haven't played in at least two releases (not counting 3.6) so it should all be pretty new. Think this time I'll try to found a kingdom without having ever been a vassal.
 
Tuco

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A huge problem with M&B (which I guess is true IRL) is that mounted units move faster on the global map, so they're automatically at a huge advantage. Plus you can win easy battles so much faster with cavalry.

Also the Mettenheim troops serve as an example for a good counter to cavalry. They're just super powered infantry that cluster together and can really destroy a cavalry charge. But it only works because their stats are so ridiculous.
 
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Zhaun_sl

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Tuco_sl said:
what are you talking about?
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I remember you saying in the last forum how easy the game is starting off, while a few of us were struggling, until I came out you just gave yourself like 50k cash to buy up the elite knight companions right from the start while the rest of us were scrounging our silvers. :p

wamphyr_sl said:
I am still ashtonished that some of you guys apreciate the strategic map gameplay. Bah...
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It is what makes the game really. There are those other ones that are just the fighty bits you can play, but to me the single player strategy map is the key.

The idea of "Here's a sword, a chain shirt and a horse, go found your empire." and then handing you a sandbox to do just that is just terrific. That fundamental alone is just gorgeous.

Again, I don't think anyone is suggesting any version is perfect, and honestly I doubt there will be a perfect form as you'll always have to give and take in some areas. The fundamental game is amazing though, and any upgrades or improvements on that core idea will be great... I hope.
 
Agraza

Agraza

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I'd like to be able to manage the caravans to do my trading on the strategic map. I'd like it if roads were more meaningful, and that I could build my own locations on the map and build/upgrade roads going to them. The strategic map is pretty weak and should be more meaningful. I'm all about evolving my role in the gameplay as time goes on, optionally.

Examples: I could become the head of a merchant republic (being big on roads and caravans) with voting or lead the allied armies of my king as the general, full of things like "you take three four counts and lay siege to X as a diversion, while I take the main host and attack the capital". Or I can become the full of dynastic emperor and decide who marries who, promote and demote the feudal lords, hand out land, etc.

I'll settle for more development in the tactical map, but the easy gains are probably in the strategic map and the RPG elements since they depend less on your computer's performance in order to shine.
 
Tuco

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Zhaun_sl said:
I remember you saying in the last forum how easy the game is starting off, while a few of us were struggling, until I came out you just gave yourself like 50k cash to buy up the elite knight companions right from the start while the rest of us were scrounging our silvers. :p
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Oh, whatever. The early game is at least simple. It's challenging when you first try the game though. I think I've started about 8 campaigns, one of which I just said fuck it and gave myself tons of cash to get the companions asap.
 
A

Azziane_sl

shitlord
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Zhaun_sl said:
The idea of "Here's a sword, a chain shirt and a horse, go found your empire." and then handing you a sandbox to do just that is just terrific. That fundamental alone is just gorgeous.
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I completely agree with that. But that's not saying the strategic map part of the game is any good. The premise/goal and sandbox aspect of the game are great. The implementation of the strategic/sandbox layer of the game is quite shitty. Do you remember the "train the peasants, one at a time, for 4 days" quests? What the fuck was that? The fighting 1v1 aspect is not even that bad, although quite repetitive. But having to sit there looking at your screen jacking off to how awesome your very own Tuco's-but-non-cheated (hehehe) army is gonna be - quickly gets old. The running around pointlessly trying to herd cows or trying to find this one lord you have a message to deliver to... I just started a new POP campaign and OH DEAR LORD I hate this part of the game.

And these quests are an inherent part of the game. Even if you are going for your own faction/rape all kind of thing you still have to go through village quests to raise an army in an efficient way. Which I think is a fine feature but horribly, boringly implemented. These quests should be fun.

Of course some people figured out eventually that focusing on small warbands or even only companions is more efficient. But I bet even these guys played the game as it was meant to be played the first time. They ran errands for the village elders, and loved the game but did not like that very part of it. I myself had a lot of fun on my first playthrough but I could not stand, from day one, any of the quests that you HAVE to do if you are going to play the game the way it is meant to be played.
 
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Zhaun_sl

shitlord
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Azziane_sl said:
I completely agree with that. But that's not saying the strategic map part of the game is any good. The premise/goal and sandbox aspect of the game are great. The implementation of the strategic/sandbox layer of the game is quite shitty. Do you remember the "train the peasants, one at a time, for 4 days" quests? What the fuck was that? The fighting 1v1 aspect is not even that bad, although quite repetitive. But having to sit there looking at your screen jacking off to how awesome your very own Tuco's-but-non-cheated (hehehe) army is gonna be - quickly gets old. The running around pointlessly trying to herd cows or trying to find this one lord you have a message to deliver to... I just started a new POP campaign and OH DEAR LORD I hate this part of the game.

And these quests are an inherent part of the game. Even if you are going for your own faction/rape all kind of thing you still have to go through village quests to raise an army in an efficient way. Which I think is a fine feature but horribly, boringly implemented. These quests should be fun.

Of course some people figured out eventually that focusing on small warbands or even only companions is more efficient. But I bet even these guys played the game as it was meant to be played the first time. They ran errands for the village elders, and loved the game but did not like that very part of it. I myself had a lot of fun on my first playthrough but I could not stand, from day one, any of the quests that you HAVE to do if you are going to play the game the way it is meant to be played.
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Oh sure, those individual quest-things are a bit dull and limited and have plenty of room for improvement. The base idea isn't flawed though. Needs polish, polish, polish! But who else is making this game?

Again, this is essentially a game made in some eastern euros basement. I'm hoping that sales have let them add a few more folks and do a good job and fill out their staff for Bannerlord.
 
wamphyr

wamphyr

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- developed by the Turkish company TaleWorlds - Bam, there goes your polish pun.

Sure, a well made Sandbox word is better in theory. First of all, Mount and Blade implementation of the strategic aspect is shitty. And secondly, I am not sure you can implement a good version of such a concept in a real time strategic map. It will become a huge grind fest no matter what you do. Or it will become really boring - (see conquering the Pendor map with +10 upgraded shadow legion centurions).

I still think a complete revamp of the strategic map is a better option. You can have a turn base movement system like in HOMM3, with a single player campain. Or a Crusader Kings system, with the tactical battles from Warband. Such as it is... Face the reality, there can be over 100 armies on the map, (lords, city and castle garnisons) with soldiers numbering in the thousands. Once you reach that level of gameplay, it is grind galore.
 
Tuco

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wamphyr_sl said:
(see conquering the Pendor map with +10 upgraded shadow legion centurions).
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*Insert screenshot of my 700 shadow legion centurion +10 army all standing at attention*

I think M&B is what you make of it and shouldn't expect indefinite amounts of interesting gameplay. I've had several playthroughs.

In one I made my own faction and recruited nearly every lord to it (Easy once you get a lot of right to rule and don't mind having an entire faction worth of lords amassing into a rape-ball in one fortress and cook there until they hate their liege enough to join you). This ended when I succeeded. I did this in Warband and PoP.

In another one I got greedy and tried to conquer the entire map on my own. As in, no lords. Just me owning all the property. I got bored of this one.

One where I stayed a loyal vassal and simply attempted to improve my liege's empire while carving out a small piece of it for myself. This ended when he granted me the honor of being marshal and then the entire faction subsequently blamed me everytime they lost a fight, despite the fact that I doubled the size of the empire in my first campaign as marshal.

Another one I went companions only and leveled them to a ridiculous amount (I forget the exact number of my highest and lowest companion). When I reached a soft-cap in terms of gear and levels I got a little crazy and edited the enemy groups and added 40 or so demonic magnus to a bunch of the weaker bandits. This put my game in a weird state because the different lord factions would immediately rush their 100-600 dudes and get raped by these 40 demonic magnus. I can't remember if I had to edit something to let my companions use the demonic armor, but eventually I got equipped with it all and upped the stakes by editing the demonic magnus and gave them better horse/armor/weapons to make them even worse. This happened for a few iterations until all me and my companions were basically super-heroes that were untouchable unless we fought these demonic magnus armies.

In some of my playthroughs I played strictly vanilla with now cheats/edits. In others I turned off fog of war. In others I enabled teleportation (Which nearly removes the global map gameplay). Bottom line: sandbox games are there for you to build sandcastles in.
 
A

Azziane_sl

shitlord
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So I'm playing a new pendor campaign and I forgot a lot of stuff. For example does having an all mounted army speed up your overview/map speed? I have only 30 guys right now and 3 or 4 in pathfinding (which I think is pretty high at level 1). But I cannot keep up with any of the minor faction infantry bands. I just lost the race to a band of 9 mountaineers north of Rane and it's infuriating.

So - Is it all pathfinding + army size? Or does having mounted troop help? I am thinking about making a Dshar army just for this.
 
Tuco

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iirc map speed depends on:

1. Your parties' highest pathfinding skill.
2. How large your party is.
3. The speed of the members in your party ( I think this allows higher movement for elite infantry and cavalry but I could be wrong)
4. How many prisoners you have.
5. Whether you have extra horses in your inventory to carry your goods (yep this helps).

Bottom line: Get cavalry, carry extra horses, dump prisoners off frequently.
 
A

Azziane_sl

shitlord
541
1
Tuco_sl said:
iirc map speed depends on:

1. Your parties' highest pathfinding skill.
2. How large your party is.
3. The speed of the members in your party ( I think this allows higher movement for elite infantry and cavalry but I could be wrong)
4. How many prisoners you have.
5. Whether you have extra horses in your inventory to carry your goods (yep this helps).

Bottom line: Get cavalry, carry extra horses, dump prisoners off frequently.
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Bought a D$160 horse and went from 4.5 to 4.6 speed already. I carry 2 of each of the cheap food for morale usually, so that's helping already. Does horse quality factor into this?
 
Gavinmad

Gavinmad

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I feel like digging up an old argument.

Ruby two-handed sword is still the best all around weapon in the game. Suck it Tuco.
 
Tuco

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I actually switched to rube 2H when I set the game up to have demonic magnus invading us.

Against all other opponents, though, the orator baccus sword is superior. This is especially true on any siege fights.
 
Gavinmad

Gavinmad

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You mean especially false on any siege fight. Siege fights are where the ruby 2h shines, it's the reason why I was able to found the old kingdom of pendor without having built myself up as someone's vassal first in my current playthrough.
 
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