MTG thread
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ronne
Nǐ hǎo, yǒu jīn zi ma?
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Vintage has been on life support for years and is kept "alive" by the small handful of old fogeys that like to bust it out once a year. Or when a store wants some publicity and runs a Vintage event giving away power pieces or something.
Natural attrition of every card is insanely high when you go back that far. Tabernacles have basically been climbing in value for 20 years based almost entirely on the fact there just aren't enough of them, and that's with it being played only like 1.5 decks. There's orders of magnitudes more duals in circulation than Tabernacles and they have done the exact same thing; the supply is static/shrinking, demand remains the same or is growing. This leads to complete collapse given a long enough timeline, there's no other outcome, save for the counterfit market taking over if wotc is unwilling to address it.
I'd advise against trying to counterfit cards if you're stupid enough to try and print something more valuable than a Tabernacle. The available market for power is well, well known and trying to pass off even 99% fakes would be damn near impossible.
Natural attrition of every card is insanely high when you go back that far. Tabernacles have basically been climbing in value for 20 years based almost entirely on the fact there just aren't enough of them, and that's with it being played only like 1.5 decks. There's orders of magnitudes more duals in circulation than Tabernacles and they have done the exact same thing; the supply is static/shrinking, demand remains the same or is growing. This leads to complete collapse given a long enough timeline, there's no other outcome, save for the counterfit market taking over if wotc is unwilling to address it.
I'd advise against trying to counterfit cards if you're stupid enough to try and print something more valuable than a Tabernacle. The available market for power is well, well known and trying to pass off even 99% fakes would be damn near impossible.
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Vintage isn't being "kept" alive. There are players with the cards, and they play. Pretty simple.
Sorry pal, but as a USA player, don't tell me how alive vintage is, or how many people there are in the community. You guys really got the short end of the stick there.
Our LGS is tiny, 50 players is a good evening, but power is available if you look for it. Along with reserved list staples, summer magic, and all the other rare stuff. Heck one guy recently picked up his last mox and is going to play his first vintage game soon.
Maybe 10 years after vintage dies legacy will be in a similar state, but atm its all just nay-saying without real arguments to back it up.
ronne
Nǐ hǎo, yǒu jīn zi ma?
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Vintage is by definition a dead format. The staple cards of every viable deck are in ultra-limited supply, with price tags to match, which means the player base can only shrink and never expand. It's a plenty amusing format, but it just isn't viable in 2016.
drtyrm
Lord Nagafen Raider
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Fucking Spell Queller? Are you shitting me?
Spell Queller - 1WU
Creature - Spirit (Rare)
Flash
Flying
When ~ enters the battlefield, exile target spell with converted mana cost 4 or less.
When ~ leaves the battlefield, the exiled card's owner may cast that card without paying its mana cost.
2/3
They couldn't have held this card off til Kaladesh? Called it Transtemporal Confluxinator or something?
I didn't rage out when the new Tamiyo was Bant but c'mon. This card is super cool but just not now.
Spell Queller - 1WU
Creature - Spirit (Rare)
Flash
Flying
When ~ enters the battlefield, exile target spell with converted mana cost 4 or less.
When ~ leaves the battlefield, the exiled card's owner may cast that card without paying its mana cost.
2/3
They couldn't have held this card off til Kaladesh? Called it Transtemporal Confluxinator or something?
I didn't rage out when the new Tamiyo was Bant but c'mon. This card is super cool but just not now.
People having money to spend on things that might increase in value doesn't mean the format is alive and being played enough to justify the prices.
People don't buy old comics worth a lot of money to read them ...
drtyrm
Lord Nagafen Raider
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Oh and rules question for you Heylel. I cast Languish, opponent swallows it with Spell Queller. Opponent's end step, I Grasp of Darkness the dude. I can cast Languish during his endstep because of the leaves the battlefield trigger right? Is there something to look for in the wording of these cards that helps to figure when it limits the spell to normal timing? Is it the 'cast that card' part?
ronne
Nǐ hǎo, yǒu jīn zi ma?
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Goddamnit now I have to agree with a_skeleton_03.
People treating it as a small time investment vessel does not a functional or healthy game format make. Look at the Moat buyout and what it has started. By the end of the month you'll see every copy of every playable reserve list card drained from the markets, and then what? Legacy becomes actually inaccessible for new players?
Honestly I have to assume that is the long game wotc is playing right now. Let Legacy choke itself out of existence, ride the Modern train and the MM reprint cycle in to mad cash.
People treating it as a small time investment vessel does not a functional or healthy game format make. Look at the Moat buyout and what it has started. By the end of the month you'll see every copy of every playable reserve list card drained from the markets, and then what? Legacy becomes actually inaccessible for new players?
Honestly I have to assume that is the long game wotc is playing right now. Let Legacy choke itself out of existence, ride the Modern train and the MM reprint cycle in to mad cash.
ronne
Nǐ hǎo, yǒu jīn zi ma?
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RE: Spell Queller feels like a bad idea given how already amazingly strong CC bant is. Every time someone casts CC in response and lands this cunt should just be a pure joy for people to play against.
That said, my plans of janky U/W/r spirits keep looking better and better.
That said, my plans of janky U/W/r spirits keep looking better and better.
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If legacy becomes inaccessible and local scenes die, cards will be dumped and their price will drop.
Stop claiming legacy will die over prices rising, again, Vintage.
Modern is a shit format compared to legacy, I keep seeing people go from modern to legacy, but never the other way. Once you brainstorm, you keep brainstorming
ronne
Nǐ hǎo, yǒu jīn zi ma?
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Should be the cast part being limited by sorcery yea. Once you've cast Languish and paid for it's "in play" (as much as spells can be" and waiting on the stack, so when the Queller gets exiled it'd return Languish back to where it was sitting on the stack to resolve.
ronne
Nǐ hǎo, yǒu jīn zi ma?
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If you seriously think Vintage is a healthy and thriving format then uhhh, I guess we're done here?
Arbitrary
Tranny Chaser
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Out of my range? I've been playing on and off for over two decades. At different points I've owned a good chunk of everything there is to own. I care about Magic the Gathering as a game. I'd like more people to be able to play more formats because there's a whole bunch of cool cards throughout the game's history that people never get to play with and never even had the chance to play with. Seeing newer players draft Eternal Masters and get to play with all those new (old) that I remember, seeing someone play with Mana Crypt for the first time, or a match getting blown out by Balance, is really cool to me. Man, this game sure is great. It would be great if its rich history was open to more players.
That's how I see things. You want to compare Magic to luxury cars.
Magic the Gathering has to be one of the worst areas to try and seek validation.
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Its healthy enough to keep the prices on the rise, which is all that is relevant when discussing the price-ceiling on legacy.