MTG thread

Arbitrary

Tranny Chaser
30,930
87,397
Back during Alara Reborn I quit the game and sold every card I owned because I hated the players so much. The only nearby store was packed with disgusting monsters that behaved so poorly just sitting next to them during my match was ruining my nights. The only reason I'm buying physical cards again and playing in prereleases after being happily away from the game for five years is because the new store by me is completely the opposite. It's actually full of decent human beings and the amount of asshattery is very, very low. I'm not really buying cards to play Magic. I'm buying cards so I can play with them.
 

Mist

REEEEeyore
<Rickshaw Potatoes>
31,802
24,488
I had a great Pre-release weekend. I don't really play anymore so was just hoping to break even and sell any good rares/packs I got to buddies who still play. Picked Abzan and was able to go 3-1 (gave win to friend I played final round so we could split 12 packs and get out early as it was Midnight pre-release).

3 of the rares I opened:

rrr_img_76701.jpg


Sold the the 3 Fetches and 6 packs for $70
Wait, you sold 2 fetches and a foil fetch and 6 packs for 70 dollars? You got wrecked. Can easily get 70 in cash for just the foil fetch.
 

Arbitrary

Tranny Chaser
30,930
87,397
Now don't you go pointing out someone's questionable trading after you explained very clearly and concisely how no one in this modern age can be cheated.
 

Mist

REEEEeyore
<Rickshaw Potatoes>
31,802
24,488
BTW, buying up leftover prerelease kits might be a good idea this time if the set is selling out.
 

Mist

REEEEeyore
<Rickshaw Potatoes>
31,802
24,488
Now don't you go pointing out someone's questionable trading after you explained very clearly and concisely how no one in this modern age can be cheated.
Well, he sold for cash. Getting 50% of what they're worth is standard for cash usually, but foil fetches are a little different.
 

Arbitrary

Tranny Chaser
30,930
87,397
My store was expecting to have to turn people away at its final prerelease event but that sounds like good advice nonetheless.

edit

Well, he sold for cash. Getting 50% of what they're worth is standard for cash usually, but foil fetches are a little different.
eBay's got foil Windswept Heaths selling for 50ish it looks like but not a ton of data points.
 

Enzee

Trakanon Raider
2,197
715
But the packs could have had more fetches! Also, to be on the safe side you should probably sell your car and buy all the cases you can.
Look man.. I work at a store, and there IS going to be a shortage of the product at times. This set is literally selling 3x better then the previous 5 sets here, and I'm seeing the same story across the nation from other stores. The current retail value of the cards in a pack is well over the retail cost of the pack, so it actually makes sense for the average person to crack packs rather then buy singles right now. That's rarely true by such a large margin.

Yes, that is not sustainable since they will keep buying packs until it's no longer true, but much like first run Zendikar, worldwake, new phyrexia and ravnica, stores will have a hard time keeping stock at times while Wizards catches up with demand. You get allotments from the distributors, and one of the biggest distributors (alliance) is already limiting orders for english Tarkir (they are almost sold out basically) and are out of stock of most of their foreign language boxes, such as korean/russian. We had to place a max order with 4 different distributors to meet demand for our pre-orders and projected sales for the first two weeks, and we are an advanced plus store. We rarely have to go to more then 2 to do so.

There has not been an entire cycle of cards like the fetch lands that Vintage, Legacy, Modern AND Standard players all wanted. Shocklands were close, but the original Ravnica ones were produced on a much larger scale then original onslaught lands, and they aren't used in Vintage/Legacy as much. Thoughtseize was another similar situation, but it was a single card in a set. It only 'tanked' when MTGO redemptions hit, and it's bottom was about $12, it's mostly held at $20 since it's been in standard. The fetches will be similar, where polluted delta will 'bottom' at $20-25 on SCG, the lowest of the others will still be $12-15. Shocks only bottomed at $12 while standard legal, and they aren't as high of demand or as low of supply (we likely won't have a 3rd set that throws some extra copies into the mix like dragon's maze did) as the fetches.

Can't wait to move back to AR next month where people don't act like pieces of shit when they lose and the owners don't put up with that shit if they do.
If it's near Northwest Arkansas, need to come visit us!

Wait, you sold 2 fetches and a foil fetch and 6 packs for 70 dollars? You got wrecked. Can easily get 70 in cash for just the foil fetch.
It was a foil windswept heath. New one, not onslaught version (which have dropped almost half their value). It sells for $50 on SCG, no one is going to pay more then that in cash, $25-35 is more likely. He didn't get ripped off at all if he traded into the store, he came out like gangbusters if that's the case. Buylist on those 3 would have been about $41. If he got retail value for the packs that's only about $62. It sounds like someone went a little bit higher then 50% value in cash, which is totally fair for him.
 

Taloo_sl

shitlord
742
2
Look man.. I work at a store, and there IS going to be a shortage of the product at times. This set is literally selling 3x better then the previous 5 sets here, and I'm seeing the same story across the nation from other stores. The current retail value of the cards in a pack is well over the retail cost of the pack, so it actually makes sense for the average person to crack packs rather then buy singles right now. That's rarely true by such a large margin.

Yes, that is not sustainable since they will keep buying packs until it's no longer true, but much like first run Zendikar, worldwake, new phyrexia and ravnica, stores will have a hard time keeping stock at times while Wizards catches up with demand. You get allotments from the distributors, and one of the biggest distributors (alliance) is already limiting orders for english Tarkir (they are almost sold out basically) and are out of stock of most of their foreign language boxes, such as korean/russian. We had to place a max order with 4 different distributors to meet demand for our pre-orders and projected sales for the first two weeks, and we are an advanced plus store. We rarely have to go to more then 2 to do so.

There has not been an entire cycle of cards like the fetch lands that Vintage, Legacy, Modern AND Standard players all wanted. Shocklands were close, but the original Ravnica ones were produced on a much larger scale then original onslaught lands, and they aren't used in Vintage/Legacy as much. Thoughtseize was another similar situation, but it was a single card in a set. It only 'tanked' when MTGO redemptions hit, and it's bottom was about $12, it's mostly held at $20 since it's been in standard. The fetches will be similar, where polluted delta will 'bottom' at $20-25 on SCG, the lowest of the others will still be $12-15. Shocks only bottomed at $12 while standard legal, and they aren't as high of demand or as low of supply (we likely won't have a 3rd set that throws some extra copies into the mix like dragon's maze did) as the fetches.


If it's near Northwest Arkansas, need to come visit us!


It was a foil windswept heath. New one, not onslaught version (which have dropped almost half their value). It sells for $50 on SCG, no one is going to pay more then that in cash, $25-35 is more likely. He didn't get ripped off at all if he traded into the store, he came out like gangbusters if that's the case. Buylist on those 3 would have been about $41. If he got retail value for the packs that's only about $62. It sounds like someone went a little bit higher then 50% value in cash, which is totally fair for him.
IIRC you're in Eureka Springs. I'll be in the Yellville/Mountain Home area so might do so once I get settled. Really not looking forward to the drive up from Florida for 10th damn time!
 

Mist

REEEEeyore
<Rickshaw Potatoes>
31,802
24,488
It was a foil windswept heath. New one, not onslaught version (which have dropped almost half their value). It sells for $50 on SCG, no one is going to pay more then that in cash, $25-35 is more likely. He didn't get ripped off at all if he traded into the store, he came out like gangbusters if that's the case. Buylist on those 3 would have been about $41. If he got retail value for the packs that's only about $62. It sounds like someone went a little bit higher then 50% value in cash, which is totally fair for him.
They never had any in stock on SCG. The cheapest one on TCG player is 60 dollars, and I've seen people trading for them at 70ish.

But yeah, it wasn't as bad of a deal as I thought.
 

Man0warr

Molten Core Raider
2,265
171
I sold them to a friend at pretty much 50% of their retail value ($30 for the foil, $12 for the other 2) and sold the packs for a little less than $3 each. I'm sure I could have gotten a bit more for the foil from someone if I cared but I was just trying to unload anything worth something before I left the card store.

I called a friend who owns a big online retail Magic operation and he said he'd give me $55 for the 3 so seemed like a good deal for my buddy. The new art foil fetches (maybe blue ones) don't go for anything close to the Onslaught ones.
 

Heylel

Trakanon Raider
3,602
430
New foil fetches will probably settle in the $50-80 range depending on which one. The two previous foil printings are very thin on the ground and command a triple digit price. These should settle to about half.

I can't really decide which to snag. My personal preference is judge foils, but I there are basically zero opportunities to trade for those so it would be a cash only sort of thing.
 

Arbitrary

Tranny Chaser
30,930
87,397
If he sold the load on eBay he probably would have been looking at 90 after fees. Seventy dollars isn't bad for no work and no risk.

Look man.. I work at a store, and there IS going to be a shortage of the product at times. This set is literally selling 3x better then the previous 5 sets here, and I'm seeing the same story across the nation from other stores. The current retail value of the cards in a pack is well over the retail cost of the pack, so it actually makes sense for the average person to crack packs rather then buy singles right now. That's rarely true by such a large margin.

Yes, that is not sustainable since they will keep buying packs until it's no longer true, but much like first run Zendikar, worldwake, new phyrexia and ravnica, stores will have a hard time keeping stock at times while Wizards catches up with demand. You get allotments from the distributors, and one of the biggest distributors (alliance) is already limiting orders for english Tarkir (they are almost sold out basically) and are out of stock of most of their foreign language boxes, such as korean/russian. We had to place a max order with 4 different distributors to meet demand for our pre-orders and projected sales for the first two weeks, and we are an advanced plus store. We rarely have to go to more then 2 to do so.

There has not been an entire cycle of cards like the fetch lands that Vintage, Legacy, Modern AND Standard players all wanted. Shocklands were close, but the original Ravnica ones were produced on a much larger scale then original onslaught lands, and they aren't used in Vintage/Legacy as much. Thoughtseize was another similar situation, but it was a single card in a set. It only 'tanked' when MTGO redemptions hit, and it's bottom was about $12, it's mostly held at $20 since it's been in standard. The fetches will be similar, where polluted delta will 'bottom' at $20-25 on SCG, the lowest of the others will still be $12-15. Shocks only bottomed at $12 while standard legal, and they aren't as high of demand or as low of supply (we likely won't have a 3rd set that throws some extra copies into the mix like dragon's maze did) as the fetches.
You can't sell me on this any harder. I'm already selling blood, sperm, and am working overtime at the strip club to buy more cases.
 

Mist

REEEEeyore
<Rickshaw Potatoes>
31,802
24,488
I think these foil fetches will end up higher once people start adding them to the mix in Modern mana bases. People aren't really brewing much Modern atm with no big events coming up.
 

Enzee

Trakanon Raider
2,197
715
IIRC you're in Eureka Springs. I'll be in the Yellville/Mountain Home area so might do so once I get settled. Really not looking forward to the drive up from Florida for 10th damn time!
The shop is over in the fayetteville/springdale area, I moved a little bit away, but yes it's practically the same area.

You can't sell me on this any harder. I'm already selling blood, sperm, and am working overtime at the strip club to buy more cases.
Just stop.

You've clearly trolled anyone who is buying extra cards now in fear of their not being stock over the next few weeks, which is a totally reasonable response.
 

Arbitrary

Tranny Chaser
30,930
87,397
Just stop.

You've clearly trolled anyone who is buying extra cards now in fear of their not being stock over the next few weeks, which is a totally reasonable response.
Well guy who has works at a store that sells the product in question, I don't agree that it is perfectly acceptable to buy more than you were otherwise budgeted to buy based on fear. If people start buying more than they were otherwise planning to buy based on fear and start to pay inflated prices based on fear than I think it's aterribleidea not to wait. There's been a shortage narrative forming since the start of the week and given that we are discussing an in-print expansion that hasn't even had its actual retail release I think that it's a totally reasonable response to take the contrarian position and throw a little cold water around.

Let's go back a bit.

A lot of people are planning to crack packs just for fetches. I'm waiting patiently for them to crater the price of everything else in the set while they try. The only packs I plan to open are whatever boxes come my way for judging events.
I agreed with Heylel and said -

I preordered a few things last week that I really liked such as Villainous Wealth (less than a buck each) and End Hostilities (1.25 each) because I thought hoping for better prices was silly but other than that I'm on the same plan. A whole bunch of the set that want to pick up is on a rocket ride to 25 cents. I'll draft once a week at the FNM and wait for deals to come my way.
If everyone goes crazy and buys like mad I may think that behavior is foolish but it it'll have a deflationary effect on cards I like that no one else is going to give a shit about and I'll be more than happy to start ordering some singles. There are a number of cards in the set that, should they crater down to the price levels I'm seeing with a good chunk of Theros, I'll buy a couple dozen of. If not than I'm happy with what picked out so far.
 

Enzee

Trakanon Raider
2,197
715
I'm not saying people buy more then they can afford. I'm saying if you are someone who normally just buys one box and then singles (which is smart), you are probably better off buying 2 boxes worth right now (or the majority of your singles budget, basically). The value of the pack is so high right now that you can sell/trade off the ones you don't want and get more bang for your buck then buying singles. That's almost NEVER the case. Cracking packs is normally a negative value equation, this is a weird circumstance that we likely won't see again for some time.

My advice is based on the assumption that people actually want to, you know, play the game for the next month or two. If you are only interested in the financial aspect of the game, then yes you will save a small amount of money waiting 1-2 months before buying any cards. But, that's true for every set, as you can just wait till MTGO redemptions hit and singles bottom out. Most people don't want to quit playing magic for that much time after a new set comes out, however. So, when faced with either buying singles at inflated prices or cracking packs, cracking packs is the more sound strategy at this time.

edit: I also think you are over-estimating how quickly they can print cards. As if they just choose to only print X amount based on what sells. The shortage narrative is legit. WotC continuously prints almost every set for quite some time leading up to release and after, they don't run at 'half speed' for sets that aren't pre-ordering as well. They may print a smaller second run if the first run hasn't sold out, but there's not as much extra room as you'd think. The facilities switch between all the sets that are currently 'in print', so they have to take time away from printing other sets at very least.

For a hypothetical, if suddenly they said they were printing a set that was literally selling 10x better then previous set, they would never be able to keep up with demand with their current printing facilities even if they ran 24/7 for 3 months before the next set needed to get printed. It would also make the other sets in standard suddenly dry up as well, as they'd effectively be 'out of print' while they focused on meeting demand for this new, hot set.

In this scenario, they'd likely rush to outsource the printing to another facilty or have their printer try to ad-hoc change a different facility to meet the order, but that's getting even more hypothetical.
 

Sterling

El Presidente
13,142
8,112
Cards will deflate at some point. Packs can't be worth more open than closed long term. But for the first couple of weeks? Sure.
 

drtyrm

Lord Nagafen Raider
1,991
155
There are enough speculators on MTGO to actually redeem that many sets? I don't know that much about the online economy.