NBA 2014 Off-Season Thread

Alex

Alex

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Slaythe_sl said:
First, false rumors? In this day and age who knows what the truth is, but no team is ever going to admit they're shopping their players. Maybe Thompson and Wiggins are both on the table right now, maybe not, but neither team is going to go out to the public and be like 'yeah we'll confirm here before any deal has been reached that we're considering trading key players. Sorry dudes, no hard feelings. Hopefully you don't mind still playing for us if we don't trade you!' Come one, man. Don't be that dense.
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Different sport, but that actually did happen in MLB this past offseason. Reds tried to shop Brandon Phillips and no one bought. He's still playing pretty well though.
 
Slaythe

Slaythe

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No, if you don't do the trade you still have to pay Dion Waiters and Tristan Thompson. Then you have to decide to pay those guys more or not to keep them. There is no situation here where you are saving money by not trading for Love. You have no money to begin with. Cap exceptions and trades are how either iteration of that team adds talent.
 
Pharazon

Pharazon

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Slaythe_sl said:
First, false rumors? In this day and age who knows what the truth is, but no team is ever going to admit they're shopping their players. Maybe Thompson and Wiggins are both on the table right now, maybe not, but neither team is going to go out to the public and be like 'yeah we'll confirm here before any deal has been reached that we're considering trading key players. Sorry dudes, no hard feelings. Hopefully you don't mind still playing for us if we don't trade you!' Come one, man. Don't be that dense.

Otherwise, I agree with a lot of what you've said up there with exception of the "get love for lesser assets" portion. I don't have much faith in Flip, but his stance here needs to be Wiggins or bust and he needs to stick to that. Personally, I don't really care if that happens at the deadline or as a sign and trade in the offseason or not at all. The worst thing he can do in this situation, is accept what you're laying out, that "something is better than nothing." That isn't true at all. I don't want to pay Anthony Bennett 6 million dollars a year for the next 4 years. Nor do I want to pay Waiters 5 or whatever he makes for the next three. I don't really care if Waiters has a decent chance of becoming a rotation player in the NBA nor do I have any interest in paying someone that just had arguably the worst first season for a first overall draft pick ever that much money. If we get to next offseason, no team has budged on either an established core player or one that has that potential, you let Love walk, you free up that 16 million dollars in salary and you tell both the Warriors and Cavs to go fuck themselves. There is zero good that can come from Flip playing hard ball now only to bend over and take it in a few months.

You listen to me Cleveland. You're giving me Wiggins or you're not getting Love. Those are your two choices. Not that you'll wait me out and I'll give you love for your blown draft picks at a later time. Trade for him now, or enjoy watching him play for the Lakers after next season. Make them call this bluff. Trading love for Bennett and Waiters (or Barnes and Lee) puts us in the exact same place we are just letting Love walk. We're still a shitty team with only one 'core' piece (Rubio) that needs to bottom out in the lottery.

I don't want to deal with the Warriors at all but if you're Flip and you love Thompson as much as he apparently does, you tell them the same thing.
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Why do you think they aren't false rumors? If GS were willing to deal Thompson I think a deal would have gotten done. Of course they're not going to blurt out that they're looking to trade Thompson, but from everything I've heard they had a long dialogue about it and decided they just don't want to trade Klay for Love with all the other factors involved. If CLE were willing to deal Wiggins you'd think Flip would jump on that. It's possible a Wiggins deal has been agreed upon and just not announced, otherwise I think both teams are fully prepared to go into camp with Klay and Wiggins on their rosters, respectively.

If Minny wants to let Love go to FA and get nothing in return (or get much less in a S&T), all the better. Warriors could probably dump the last year of Lee's deal and find a way to sign Love. I don't think it's a guarantee he picks the Lakers because he'd need some assurance they were going to sign another big name FA, and even they they'd be sorely lacking in talent. He'd risk another couple years of missing the playoffs.
 
Pharazon

Pharazon

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Araxen_sl said:
The Wiggins deal won't last till the trade deadline. If Wiggins isn't doing well enough at the trade deadline the Wolves won't deal for him. His value will be known. Right now his value isn't know by either side. It's just a guess right now and you can't judge off Summer League performances. These guys are playing against non-drafted players for the most part so they should be doing well against that level of talent.

Personally if Boston has Smart on the table I would rather they deal Love for him. I think he's going to be a better player plus the Celtics have Brooklyn's first rounders which should turn out to be a better value than the picks Cleveland holds. Of course the Wolves FO doesn't want to do the Boston trade since the last star we traded away was with Boston also. The fans still have a sour taste in their mouth over that.
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Wiggins value isn't going to drop that much from 3 months in the league. Dude has all the athletic ability in the world, is only 19 years old, and is going to be playing with a couple guys who are going to be dominating the ball a ton. What he shows in his first few months in the league is not going to reflect all that well what kind of player he is in 4-5 years. I guarantee you that if Love is still on the Wolves come the trade deadline, Flip would take Wiggins for him regardless of how Wiggins has looked up to that point.
 
Angelwatch

Angelwatch

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Slaythe_sl said:
You listen to me Cleveland. You're giving me Wiggins or you're not getting Love. Those are your two choices. Not that you'll wait me out and I'll give you love for your blown draft picks at a later time. Trade for him now, or enjoy watching him play for the Lakers after next season. Make them call this bluff. Trading love for Bennett and Waiters (or Barnes and Lee) puts us in the exact same place we are just letting Love walk. We're still a shitty team with only one 'core' piece (Rubio) that needs to bottom out in the lottery.
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I'm going to offer a counter arrangement. We give you a week old meatball sandwich (from a vendor of your choice) in exchange for Love. Because if Love isn't signed by the trade deadline, you get nothing when Love walks out (which we all know he'll do). He won't go to the Lakers which is in shambles right now when Lebron and him want to play together. I'm willing to take that risk.

Personally I like the idea of keeping Wiggins and don't think he should be dealt. I think he has a ton of potential and he's going to learn a LOT under Lebron's mentorship. But in the end, it's going to be Lebron's call because, as I said, what Lebron wants, Lebron gets.
 
Jovec

Jovec

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Angelwatch_sl said:
I'm going to offer a counter arrangement. We give you a week old meatball sandwich (from a vendor of your choice) in exchange for Love. Because if Love isn't signed by the trade deadline, you get nothing when Love walks out (which we all know he'll do). He won't go to the Lakers which is in shambles right now when Lebron and him want to play together. I'm willing to take that risk.

Personally I like the idea of keeping Wiggins and don't think he should be dealt. I think he has a ton of potential and he's going to learn a LOT under Lebron's mentorship. But in the end, it's going to be Lebron's call because, as I said, what Lebron wants, Lebron gets.
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If Love leaves via free-agency then his choices are limited to teams with cap room or a sign-and-trade. Cavs don't have the room to straight sign him unless he signs for peanuts. Love may walk, but a trade is the only way he goes to the Cavs.
 
Slaythe

Slaythe

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Pharazon_sl said:
Why do you think they aren't false rumors? If GS were willing to deal Thompson I think a deal would have gotten done. Of course they're not going to blurt out that they're looking to trade Thompson, but from everything I've heard they had a long dialogue about it and decided they just don't want to trade Klay for Love with all the other factors involved. If CLE were willing to deal Wiggins you'd think Flip would jump on that. It's possible a Wiggins deal has been agreed upon and just not announced, otherwise I think both teams are fully prepared to go into camp with Klay and Wiggins on their rosters, respectively.

If Minny wants to let Love go to FA and get nothing in return (or get much less in a S&T), all the better. Warriors could probably dump the last year of Lee's deal and find a way to sign Love. I don't think it's a guarantee he picks the Lakers because he'd need some assurance they were going to sign another big name FA, and even they they'd be sorely lacking in talent. He'd risk another couple years of missing the playoffs.
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Unfortunately dumping Lee will not get you enough cap room to sign Love. You guys are way too far over to make that realistic. You guys miss out on this too and he goes to the Lakers. All over Klay Thompson.
 
Slaythe

Slaythe

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Angelwatch_sl said:
I'm going to offer a counter arrangement. We give you a week old meatball sandwich (from a vendor of your choice) in exchange for Love. Because if Love isn't signed by the trade deadline, you get nothing when Love walks out (which we all know he'll do). He won't go to the Lakers which is in shambles right now when Lebron and him want to play together. I'm willing to take that risk.

Personally I like the idea of keeping Wiggins and don't think he should be dealt. I think he has a ton of potential and he's going to learn a LOT under Lebron's mentorship. But in the end, it's going to be Lebron's call because, as I said, what Lebron wants, Lebron gets.
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Listen to me dude.

IF THE CAVS DON'T TRADE FOR LOVE THEY CAN NOT SIGN HIM. YOU MUST HAVE SALARY CAP SPACE TO SIGN FREE AGENTS. THE CAVS DO NOT.

How is this so hard to understand?
 
Pharazon

Pharazon

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Slaythe_sl said:
Unfortunately dumping Lee will not get you enough cap room to sign Love. You guys are way too far over to make that realistic. You guys miss out on this too and he goes to the Lakers. All over Klay Thompson.
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It'd be close and might involved dumping one or two contracts aside from Lee, but they could probably find a way to get it done, especially if the cap goes up another few mill. It'd hinge on not re-signing Klay until they signed Love. Their 3 core contracts of Curry+Bogut+Iguodala would only be taking up ~37 million at that point, and Thompson would have a small cap hold (I think? not sure how that works) until he were re-signed.
 
Ambiturner

Ambiturner

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Slaythe_sl said:
Listen to me dude.

IF THE CAVS DON'T TRADE FOR LOVE THEY CAN NOT SIGN HIM. YOU MUST HAVE SALARY CAP SPACE TO SIGN FREE AGENTS. THE CAVS DO NOT.

How is this so hard to understand?
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Did you miss the part where he said "They'd find a way"? What more do you need?
 
Drakurii

Drakurii

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Slaythe_sl said:
Listen to me dude.

IF THE CAVS DON'T TRADE FOR LOVE THEY CAN NOT SIGN HIM. YOU MUST HAVE SALARY CAP SPACE TO SIGN FREE AGENTS. THE CAVS DO NOT.

How is this so hard to understand?
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Your caps are not big enough to explain the cap.
 
Angelwatch

Angelwatch

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No Kevin Love to Cleveland, Andrew Wiggins to Stay with Cavaliers - International Business Times

So it sounds like the Cavs told Minnesota to go sit and spin and that's a decision I agree with.

I know a lot of analysts have said to do the trade with Wiggins for Love but I never liked that idea. Wiggins isn't going to be all that great this year. That's a given. He's only 19 and it will be his first time against some really skilled NBA players. But I think he has enormous potential and I think he can learn a ton with Lebron as a mentor. In a couple of years, he has the potential to be an all star. I guess it's my accounting background that is a bit more conservative where I'd rather look at Wiggins as an investment in the future as opposed to the "win it all now or never" mentality that a lot of sports analysts possess.
 
Convo

Convo

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Angelwatch_sl said:
No Kevin Love to Cleveland, Andrew Wiggins to Stay with Cavaliers - International Business Times

So it sounds like the Cavs told Minnesota to go sit and spin and that's a decision I agree with.

I know a lot of analysts have said to do the trade with Wiggins for Love but I never liked that idea. Wiggins isn't going to be all that great this year. That's a given. He's only 19 and it will be his first time against some really skilled NBA players. But I think he has enormous potential and I think he can learn a ton with Lebron as a mentor. In a couple of years, he has the potential to be an all star. I guess it's my accounting background that is a bit more conservative where I'd rather look at Wiggins as an investment in the future as opposed to the "win it all now or never" mentality that a lot of sports analysts possess.
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There's a big different.. Wiggins has potential, Love is an all star. The guy is 25 and averages a double double. Not to mention he can shoot all over the floor. Cleveland fucked up. I like Wiggins too, but if you're putting yourself in the best position to win, you take Love.
 
Angelwatch

Angelwatch

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Convo_sl said:
There's a big different.. Wiggins has potential, Love is an all star. The guy is 25 and averages a double double. Not to mention he can shoot all over the floor. Cleveland fucked up. I like Wiggins too, but if you're putting yourself in the best position to win, you take Love.
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I disagree because time is on our side. Minnesota is in a position where they have to trade Love or risk getting nothing for him. I think they got too greedy with their demands wanting Wiggins, Bennett, a couple 1st round picks, a new puppy and a lolly pop. If it was straight up Wiggins for Love, I'd have been more inclined to make the trade but they were asking to get the moon for a player who is going to walk at the end of the year anyway.
 
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