Ambiturner
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NBA 2014 Off-Season Thread
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joz123
Potato del Grande
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Drakurii
Golden Baron of the Realm
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That isn't really news. Even if his plan is to stay with the Knicks he was always going to opt out anyway. Unless he takes a cut to go to Miami, he still commands the max so this just lets him make the same money (essentially, NYK can still pay him the most but at this point its kind of marginal) and get locked up long term.
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Pharazon, I think it's a lot of posturing on both sides, but if the Warriors deal for Love is actually dead, because they refused to let go of both Klay and Barnes, does that upset you like it should? I won't put your franchise at the same level of incompetency as ours, but valuing those two players over pairing Love long term with Curry (lol kill me this should be the Wolves right now) seems like absolute insanity to me.
Pharazon
Silver Knight of the Realm
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I agree there's a lot of posturing going on and the deal can't be totally dead, but nah, it wouldn't kill me. I've been through many years of incompetent leadership with the Warriors (and suffered more misery than Wolves fans), but for a change they have a pretty solid management team in place now. If they don't make a deal, they have their reasons. I could write a lot about my reasoning but there's little point, either they'll make the trade or they won't and I'll probably be fine with it either way. It still seems like there's a decent chance they'll end up making a deal, they just don't want to bid against themselves right now. Things will become more clear on draft day. Some teams may bow out, others may enter, we'll see.
Bottom line is that they've won 50+ two straight years with a bad coach, and if nothing else I'm hoping Kerr is a major move they've made to improve the team. I'd be fine with seeing what Kerr can do with essentially the same team that Jackson had, and there are always other possible moves that may come along. Maybe Minnesota doesn't find a deal they like now and he's available for less at the trade deadline. As a FA next summer? Other big names might pop up as well.
I have no sympathy for you missing Curry or any of your team's other shitty picks. Any franchise that spends time in the lottery has their tales of misery. We took Joe Smith #1 in 95.
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Jonny Flynn though? The shitty thing about Curry was just how obvious of a pick it was. When Rubio fell to us, everyone in the room started celebrating. We didn't even realize we passed on Curry until a few minutes after the pick. I can honestly excuse every other pick (Wes Johnson was ultra shitty but high on the scouts draft boards even though he didn't deserve to be). Derrick Williams sucked too but without question the consensus #2 in that draft.
I just think maybe people don't realize how good Love is. Defensive liabilities aside (although there is no real statistical evidence to point to Love being as awful a defender as people think), I can't think of a better PnR duo than Curry and Love. Your team might be a net- defensively after the deal, as also despite his reputation, Klay is a pretty decent man defender and I know they hid Curry often by having Klay guard his man.
Anyway, if it was my team, I would hate to think a player like Barnes was holding up the deal, but you already know how I feel about him. I'm still in the boat of not trading Love, so nothing really upsets me. If we do pull the trigger though, I just want the best value back possible. In all honestly I'd rather the GS package be Lee, Klay and Green over Barnes. I don't know what your management thinks of Green but it seems like there are some knowledgeable Warriors fans out there that realize he's one of those guys that does the little things that help a team win.
Love is a legit top 10 player though, and he's 25.
I just think maybe people don't realize how good Love is. Defensive liabilities aside (although there is no real statistical evidence to point to Love being as awful a defender as people think), I can't think of a better PnR duo than Curry and Love. Your team might be a net- defensively after the deal, as also despite his reputation, Klay is a pretty decent man defender and I know they hid Curry often by having Klay guard his man.
Anyway, if it was my team, I would hate to think a player like Barnes was holding up the deal, but you already know how I feel about him. I'm still in the boat of not trading Love, so nothing really upsets me. If we do pull the trigger though, I just want the best value back possible. In all honestly I'd rather the GS package be Lee, Klay and Green over Barnes. I don't know what your management thinks of Green but it seems like there are some knowledgeable Warriors fans out there that realize he's one of those guys that does the little things that help a team win.
Love is a legit top 10 player though, and he's 25.
Pharazon
Silver Knight of the Realm
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I probably haven't seen Love play enough the last 2-3 years to really appreciate how good he is now. I think I have a pretty good idea, but it's still tough to gauge exactly how good he'd be on a better team. I feel like his scoring might be a little inflated right now from playing on a team without much else for scorers, and yes his defense is obviously not great. That is the main beef with Lee as well, so they're a wash on D probably, but losing Klay's defense in the process would hurt.
Klay at this point I think has a pretty good reputation on D and it's well deserved. He's a good defender and his ability to guard point guards and stay in front of them makes him a great fit next to Curry on that end as well. In the West where you might have to face Westbrook, Paul, Parker, or Lillard in any given playoff series, it's huge. That's why offensively and defensively, they are just really balking on trading Klay. Bottom line is he will likely be a 20+ ppg scorer the next few years who fits well next to Curry on the defensive end. I think by their thinking if they're going to trade him for Love, Wolves should feel they are lucky they are getting that much since Love is gone either way.
Yes, a lot of people value Green more highly than Barnes. Green showed he can really play especially towards the end of the season and into the playoffs. Played some pretty good D against Griffin in the playoffs and I actually would prefer to see him start next season over Lee if we don't get Love. He was contributing more consistently than Barnes last season, however I don't value Green more highly than Barnes myself. Just as Green really improved a lot last season, I expect Barnes to do the same this season. In their rookie years, Green largely looked like shit btw while Barnes showed many more flashes of being a player.
Generally though I get that Love is a great player, and yeah that pick and pop would be fun. I really wanted them to find a way to get him coming out of college cause he was exactly what they needed at that point, but that was before he blew up his shooting the way he has. I appreciate that he can box out with anybody on the planet (sometimes I think David Lee doesn't know what a box out is). I'm trying to quantify what it'd mean to have Curry and Love together. Closest thing I can come up with is the Nash - Nowitzki combo early in their careers.
Seriously though, what do you think Love's upside is, offensively? Can he be Dirk with better rebounding? I know Dirk is longer and in his title run that made all the difference because he was making shots that were simply unguardable. Not sure Love will ever be able to hit those big time shots that really set Nowitzki apart, but you've seen him play a lot more than I have.
Klay at this point I think has a pretty good reputation on D and it's well deserved. He's a good defender and his ability to guard point guards and stay in front of them makes him a great fit next to Curry on that end as well. In the West where you might have to face Westbrook, Paul, Parker, or Lillard in any given playoff series, it's huge. That's why offensively and defensively, they are just really balking on trading Klay. Bottom line is he will likely be a 20+ ppg scorer the next few years who fits well next to Curry on the defensive end. I think by their thinking if they're going to trade him for Love, Wolves should feel they are lucky they are getting that much since Love is gone either way.
Yes, a lot of people value Green more highly than Barnes. Green showed he can really play especially towards the end of the season and into the playoffs. Played some pretty good D against Griffin in the playoffs and I actually would prefer to see him start next season over Lee if we don't get Love. He was contributing more consistently than Barnes last season, however I don't value Green more highly than Barnes myself. Just as Green really improved a lot last season, I expect Barnes to do the same this season. In their rookie years, Green largely looked like shit btw while Barnes showed many more flashes of being a player.
Generally though I get that Love is a great player, and yeah that pick and pop would be fun. I really wanted them to find a way to get him coming out of college cause he was exactly what they needed at that point, but that was before he blew up his shooting the way he has. I appreciate that he can box out with anybody on the planet (sometimes I think David Lee doesn't know what a box out is). I'm trying to quantify what it'd mean to have Curry and Love together. Closest thing I can come up with is the Nash - Nowitzki combo early in their careers.
Seriously though, what do you think Love's upside is, offensively? Can he be Dirk with better rebounding? I know Dirk is longer and in his title run that made all the difference because he was making shots that were simply unguardable. Not sure Love will ever be able to hit those big time shots that really set Nowitzki apart, but you've seen him play a lot more than I have.
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The thing I would say is that even if Love has reached his peak offensively, he's already really, really good. 46% from the field, 37 from 3. Gets the line 8 times a game and this last season tacked on over 4 assists a game. That's really pretty high efficiency for someone not named LeBron, Durant or Chris Paul. He's a work horse in the offseason and every year has done something major to improve his game. I never really saw him be the playmaker he turned into last year (even though his passing was touted coming out of college) but sure enough it was one part of his game was lacking and after an offseason of focusing on it he came back and was one of the very top PFs in APG.
Dirk turned himself into a 50/40/90 guy (or at least close enough) and that's a pretty elite club. I'm not sure Love ever shoots from the field that well, but I'd agree that's his ceiling (ceiling Mavs fans...not saying he'll get there don't freak out).
Dirk turned himself into a 50/40/90 guy (or at least close enough) and that's a pretty elite club. I'm not sure Love ever shoots from the field that well, but I'd agree that's his ceiling (ceiling Mavs fans...not saying he'll get there don't freak out).
OU Ariakas
Diet Dr. Pepper Enjoyer
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Man, I really respect how amazing Lebron is as a player but I lose respect for him as a person when he makes these choices. He left his hometown before the peak of his career to championship chase, went to place where he went 2 for 4 in title series, and now he is going to go championship chasing again. What other players would kill for a 50% win rate in the NBA finals? When I tell my kids about Lebron it will be a story of the most physically gifted basketball player I had ever seen that ruined his legacy by hopping from team to team hoping to catch onto a dynasty rather than staying somewhere and helping create it around him.
Ameraves
New title pending...
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Well, it is still possible that he stays in Miami. He may be waiting to see what Riley's plan is to retool the team and make them a legitimate contender again, and not just rely on the "big 3".
Now, do I think that is going to happen? Probably not. But I think it is too early to jump all over him for team hopping again.
Now, do I think that is going to happen? Probably not. But I think it is too early to jump all over him for team hopping again.
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Why is this any sort of surprise? Listen guys, if you're a max player, and you have the ability to opt out of your contract, you always do it. Player options or ETOs are there in the case of injuries or if for whatever reason you can't command those dollars on the open market (see: Rudy Gay and Bargnani opting in this offseason). LeBron is obviously getting paid the max on his next contract. It makes zero sense for him to not reup long term as soon as he possibly can. This is the same thing Carmelo did. It doesn't mean he isn't coming back to Miami and it's the least surprising news of the year.
moontayle
Golden Squire
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Considering this last finals was basically Lebron + 11 other guys vs Spurs, it's not really a surprise. Wade's knees are a huge problem going forward, that shit just doesn't magically go away and I have to imagine the last four years of doing regular season PLUS all four possible playoff series has taken its toll. Don't know what happened to Bosh. Rest of the team doesn't really inspire confidence that they can keep going at a high level. Riley is going to have to make a hell of a pitch to keep Lebron around but I don't see where he could possibly go.
Ambiturner
Ssraeszha Raider
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Ambi, this is another situation where you're going to have to explain yourself. Did you, in your all seeing eye, not think Rubio was a good prospect at draft time? And do you, today, not consider him to be an ok player?