NBA 2014 Off-Season Thread
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KCXIV
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yep, bones can fuse back together, the ligaments cant, not without doing all kinds of bullshit to it.
I'd rather suffer the break then a torn knee. How many times we seen a tore up knee and the guy cant come back from it. WEll at least not to tip top form.
Djay
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Wiggins, Bennett, 2015 protected 1st round pick for Love is being reported as done on ESPN pending the expiration of the 30 day waiting period on Wiggins' signing.
Not really a surprise to anyone that's been following this, but someone must have got word from a couple credible sources to actually run the story as certain as they're reporting it.
Bennett might end up in Philadelphia for Thaddeus Young. Irving, Waiters, James, Love, Varajao is better than any of the Miami teams on paper. Not sure how Irving will take going from being "the man" to the 3rd option. We'll need to see how quickly the team gels in reality, but damn.
Not really a surprise to anyone that's been following this, but someone must have got word from a couple credible sources to actually run the story as certain as they're reporting it.
Bennett might end up in Philadelphia for Thaddeus Young. Irving, Waiters, James, Love, Varajao is better than any of the Miami teams on paper. Not sure how Irving will take going from being "the man" to the 3rd option. We'll need to see how quickly the team gels in reality, but damn.
Djay
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As for Minnesota...I guess you have to hope that this is the poke that Wiggins needs to go out and prove they made a mistake. I'm souring on Wiggins more and more whenever I hear him talk...I wonder about his intelligence and communication skills. Not sure about his leadership capabilities. In contrast, Parker comes off as silky smooth whenever you listen to him. I hope it works out for ya, Slaythe...really sad not being able to capitalize on KG or Love. :/
Angelwatch
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I've warmed up to the trade. Especially in light of Paul George's injury were I think it might be better to gamble and win it all this year or next.
I'd still have preferred we traded Waiters over Bennett but, my guess, is that nobody was going to go for that trade. I think Waiters is a solid player but he's got chemistry issues where he, allegedly, doesn't get along with Kyrie Irving and he is pissy about the idea of not being a starter. But maybe an environment of winning will change his attitude around for the better.
Still waiting to see what Ray Allen is going to do. He's old but unlike the gamble we took on Shaq, he can still play.
I'd still have preferred we traded Waiters over Bennett but, my guess, is that nobody was going to go for that trade. I think Waiters is a solid player but he's got chemistry issues where he, allegedly, doesn't get along with Kyrie Irving and he is pissy about the idea of not being a starter. But maybe an environment of winning will change his attitude around for the better.
Still waiting to see what Ray Allen is going to do. He's old but unlike the gamble we took on Shaq, he can still play.
Foggy
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I would put the first two years of the Miami teams ahead of this Cavs team on paper. Irving and Waiters are completely unproven and both coming off horrible seasons. Love is a stats whore that has never accomplished anything (I think he is great but he has to prove it when he matters). And Varajao won't make it through the season. They have no rim protector either. That defense is going to be SOFT. They are still the favorites in the East imo (but lol East).
Still not a better team than the Spurs or Thunder, maybe not even the Clips or Mavs. If Rose is 100% they may be worse than the Bulls, too.
Unless Blatt's offensive genius can offset their lack of defense or bench.
Unless Blatt's offensive genius can offset their lack of defense or bench.
Djay
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Lebron now > Lebron then
Love > Bosh
Irving > Wade
Even if you don't agree with me on Irving/Wade, the other two outweigh whatever advantage you'd want to give Wade there. I'd rather have Waiters than Chalmers. I'd rather have Varajao than...Haslem? Talent-wise, on paper, this team blows those Miami teams out of the water. KG wasn't a bad player because he was on bad teams. Let's stop pretending that we can't compare players if they haven't been on winning teams.
There's still a chemistry thing that needs to be worked out, but all I can look at is what's on paper. And you also don't have Lebron and Wade trying to play the exact same game like you did on that first Miami team.
Love > Bosh
Irving > Wade
Even if you don't agree with me on Irving/Wade, the other two outweigh whatever advantage you'd want to give Wade there. I'd rather have Waiters than Chalmers. I'd rather have Varajao than...Haslem? Talent-wise, on paper, this team blows those Miami teams out of the water. KG wasn't a bad player because he was on bad teams. Let's stop pretending that we can't compare players if they haven't been on winning teams.
There's still a chemistry thing that needs to be worked out, but all I can look at is what's on paper. And you also don't have Lebron and Wade trying to play the exact same game like you did on that first Miami team.
Foggy
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Irving now over Wade four years ago, are you fucking kidding? Wade four years ago was a top 10 player.
LeBron then < LeBron now (this is pretty narrow, he was a stud then and is now)
Wade > Love (Wade was an absolute stud with championship pedigree)
Bosh > Irving (This isn't even close)
Yes, in a vacuum Waiters > Chalmers, but what is Waiters going to do on this team? You already have THREE players that need the ball in their hands. You need somebody that will go all out of defense (lol) and shoot threes. Varajao is a paper only player.
LeBron then < LeBron now (this is pretty narrow, he was a stud then and is now)
Wade > Love (Wade was an absolute stud with championship pedigree)
Bosh > Irving (This isn't even close)
Yes, in a vacuum Waiters > Chalmers, but what is Waiters going to do on this team? You already have THREE players that need the ball in their hands. You need somebody that will go all out of defense (lol) and shoot threes. Varajao is a paper only player.
Also Love and Varajao are guaranteed to miss 15-20 games each, they always do. Love hasn't proven he's anything but a stat whore either.
This Cavs team may be better than last year's Miami team, but no way are they better than 2011-2012 Miami Heat.
This Cavs team may be better than last year's Miami team, but no way are they better than 2011-2012 Miami Heat.
Ambiturner
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If he's comparing Irving and Wade today, he might be right. If it's Wade of 4 years ago then that's a complete joke. I don't know about Lebron being clearly better now either, I'm betting he'll be roughly the same.
Love is a pretty dramatic upgrade over Bosh, though.
Angelwatch
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The thing about Varajao is that he's injury prone but it's because he gives 100% every game no matter what. The past few years he took games personally and never gave up and took all the responsibility on himself. Now that there is an actual team around him, hopefully he won't be so prone to getting hurt when there are others to support him.
Sir Funk
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I'm excited to watch Kyrie, Kevin Love, and King James (aka The KKK in Cleveland) not live up to expectations.
But I'm happy with the Wiggins trade as a Minnesota fan. I'll take the young talent and hopefully the games will be a little more exciting to watch this year.
But I'm happy with the Wiggins trade as a Minnesota fan. I'll take the young talent and hopefully the games will be a little more exciting to watch this year.
Convo
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In Philly the talk is the Sixers would get Bennett and a 1st for Thad. I'd love this move if it happens. I know Bennett is a question mark but Thad is never going to take us anywhere and Bennett could have a lot of upside. Worst case we let him go when his rookie deal is over and by then Saric is ready to play in the NBA.
What was Bennett's deal in Cleveland? just not living up to his #1 overall spot?
What was Bennett's deal in Cleveland? just not living up to his #1 overall spot?
Angelwatch
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Pretty much. It was a shallow draft and there was no real right answer as to who #1 should be. We took a chance on Bennett and it really didn't pan out. Towards the end of the season he started to show some promising signs but he never lived up to what a #1 should be. Apparently he took things personally over the off-season and got himself in shape and was showing some promise but I really don't see him living up to what a #1 should look like any time soon. Don't get me wrong, there's promise there but his rookie season he had a really bad attitude towards himself and the game. Him getting into shape over the off-season might show that he's coming around but, for the time being, he remains a bust until he proves otherwise.
Convo
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Sounds like he might just need time. Cool thing about him playing here is he won't have any pressure. He'll be one of 3 other lottery picks on the court. Plus it's more about tanking for one year to get in the lottery again. He would really just have to focus on improving but not worrying about wins and losses this year.
Pharazon
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Eh, the expectations won't be quite as high though as they were for Lebron's previous big 3. That team brought together 3 players who consistently led their teams to the playoffs pretty much by themselves. This unites Lebron with two guys who have never made the playoffs. Granted, Love could have led his guys to the playoffs had he been playing in the Least. The biggest difference between this team and Miami though will likely be on the defensive end. Love has not shown he can consistently play D, where as Bosh wasn't too bad. Irving doesn't play D. Lebron and Wade were a menace out there together.
Yeah, I'd be pretty excited about the trade if I were a Minny fan too. All Flip's bullshit about wanting to stay competitive is now gone. They're rebuilding, but you can't ask for a better rebuild start than by getting the last 2 #1's in the deal. They'll be terrible for a couple years, giving them a chance to load up on a few more high lottery picks while Wiggins and Lavine grow (I think there's a better chance Lavine turns into something special than Bennet).
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We shut down Love twice in losing seasons for made up injuries. Believe me or not. I was at all those games I remember pretty clearly the bump in the head he sat 15 games for or the sore elbow he missed 10. The other outlier was the lockout year (people always look at this and see 55 games and assume he missed 30). Otherwise, he missed significant time in two seasons for the same exact injury which he has since played 77 games on. Has he missed time in the past? Yes. Is it an educated guess that he will continue to do so? I don't think so. His hand is healthy again, so is the rest of him.
As far as the Miami vs Cavs discussion, sorry Djay, I'm on the other side of this one. Wade 4 years ago was a legit two way superstar that perhaps Love can equal in talent (but probably not production next to Bron?) and Bosh was probably the best 3rd banana in the league. Today, LeBron and Love are the best duo in the league, without question (fuck off Foggy I don't want you to tell me Westbrook's defense makes him a better player than Love), but as impressive of a rookie year as Irving had, he has regressed significantly. Even at his best he only brings one skill to the table: scoring. If he can get those shooting numbers back up he can be elite at that, but he's a sub par playmaker and absolutely awful on defense. Kyrie makes Love look like an all NBA defender in comparison.
They're the favorites in the east easy. They need to add some defensive roleplayers and they'll be fine (Marion would be great). They're certainly title contenders for the remainder of LeBron's prime (and potentially beyond that depending on how Kyrie develops).
On the Wolves end I'll still hold on to trading Love being a bad idea all around, but Wiggins at least has potential. I've never been as high on him as others. He was an ace blue chip high school recruit that had a good but not great year at Kansas. Here's a list of some other players considered the top high school recruit in their respective classes: Brandon Jennings, Derrick Favors, Austin Rivers, Shabazz Muhammad, Harrison Barnes. Now there are some solid players there, but they all have one thing in common: drafted way too high. And I'm also not trying to say that every top high school recruit is a bust (Love and Anthony Davis were too), simply that draft scouts put a ton of weight on high school recruiting status and I'm not sure why. Love and Anthony Davis were both monsters in college. Not so much with the list of others that still went high.
We still have Flip, so we're still watching a Rubio/Martin/Brewer/????/Pek team putter to 25 wins and miss out on top picks. I don't hate getting Wiggins back simply because I acknowledge his potential. I don't think he'll get there, but even then I think he probably ends up ok. They really need to bottom out though, because in 4 years Rubio/Lavine/Wiggins/Dieng just isn't going to cut it.