Neverwinter: PC

Kirun

Kirun

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Bellringer_sl said:
So we basically need to wait for the MMO industry to "die" in order to have a good MMO?
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Eh, depends. The problem is, when a video-game genre dies, it usually takes a long time for it to be "revitalized". Some genres never really recover at all. The larger hope, is that consumers start voting with their wallets and a shift in design philosophies happens. As long as "quick buck" shit like DLC and P2W are profitable in the short-term, companies are going to fleece consumers for all that they can, while they can. Thankfully, some of this is starting to change now with independent studios and things like kickstarter. The issue with that, however, is that MMOs are such a large undertaking from a financial standpoint, most "indie" studios can't fund development on an MMO.

The MMO space has been in a "lull" for a while now. Sadly, it doesn't look like anything on the horizon is going to save us from that. GW2 was the last great hope for many, including myself, but it ended up being more of the same, scripted, generic "quick fix" style of gameplay we're used to. And maybe that really is the future for MMOs. Glorified, graphical lobbies, that you wait in while you queue up for said "fix".
 
Qhue

Qhue

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Case in point is the "Wing Commander" / Space flight sim genre. Other than Eve there have been zero entries into this genre in the past decade. Now we have Star Citizen coming along to try and revitalize the thing, but think of what could have been done in terms of innovation if the people behind Wing Commander, Xwing/Tie Fighter, etc. had been active this entire time.

If MMORPGs die with the games in development right now we'd have to wait until 2025 or so for them to start back up as development kickstarters using Oculus Rift 3
 
D

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
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Bellringer_sl said:
This is a fundamental problem in the MMO industry. Well not FOR the MMO industry itself, but for gamers who want to play a lasting MMO. F2P MMO's are developed for exactly this. for someone to spend 2-4 months playing, drop 50 bucks, then move on to the next F2P MMO. One of the reasons we will never see another legitimately powerful MMO.
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I duno, $60 is not an amazing amount of money for me, and having a good weapon from 1-16ish and a mount was worth the 30-50 hours I played the game with. I say that is pretty good compensation for entertainment.

If you are on a gaming budget, don't bother paying anything for this game. I felt I got my monies worth.
 
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vazdeline_sl

shitlord
105
1
Kirun_sl said:
Eh, depends. The problem is, when a video-game genre dies, it usually takes a long time for it to be "revitalized". Some genres never really recover at all. The larger hope, is that consumers start voting with their wallets and a shift in design philosophies happens. As long as "quick buck" shit like DLC and P2W are profitable in the short-term, companies are going to fleece consumers for all that they can, while they can. Thankfully, some of this is starting to change now with independent studios and things like kickstarter. The issue with that, however, is that MMOs are such a large undertaking from a financial standpoint, most "indie" studios can't fund development on an MMO.

The MMO space has been in a "lull" for a while now. Sadly, it doesn't look like anything on the horizon is going to save us from that. GW2 was the last great hope for many, including myself, but it ended up being more of the same, scripted, generic "quick fix" style of gameplay we're used to. And maybe that really is the future for MMOs. Glorified, graphical lobbies, that you wait in while you queue up for said "fix".
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This made me think. The genre as we think it was is ready dead. The only savior to the way things were/should be, is if people do not play the shit that is raping the market. So essentially, its the players fault for supporting all of these shitty games.
 
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Bellringer_sl

shitlord
387
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Its absolutely people who pay money for shitty games fault. People who put 5-10 dollars into a shitty F2P game only creates more F2P/P2W bullshit.
 
Ninen

Ninen

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vazdeline_sl said:
This made me think. The genre as we think it was is ready dead. The only savior to the way things were/should be, is if people do not play the shit that is raping the market. So essentially, its the players fault for supporting all of these shitty games.
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While true, whats the alternative? Do you honestly expect most gamers, when trying to scratch their itch, and presented with the choices of A) Crap, B) Shit MK2, C) Garbage-the 6th sequel, D) The Movie tie-in game; to skip all of them and go read a book? It's all relativistic. They'll pick the least shitty of the shitty choices, and because it's still a shittier choice than last-year's choices, the industry will continue along its path.
 
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Bellringer_sl

shitlord
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Ninen_sl said:
While true, whats the alternative? Do you honestly expect most gamers, when trying to scratch their itch, and presented with the choices of A) Crap, B) Shit MK2, C) Garbage-the 6th sequel, D) The Movie tie-in game; to skip all of them and go read a book? It's all relativistic. They'll pick the least shitty of the shitty choices, and because it's still a shittier choice than last-year's choices, the industry will continue along its path.
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dont depress me with reality asshole.
 
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Disp_sl

shitlord
1,544
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Bellringer_sl said:
Its absolutely people who pay money for shitty games fault. People who put 5-10 dollars into a shitty F2P game only creates more F2P/P2W bullshit.
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Why does it matter what shitty games people want to pay $5-$10 for if they're enjoying them? You don't need to play them and there will still be plenty of awesome games out there.
 
Kirun

Kirun

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Disp_sl said:
Why does it matter what shitty games people want to pay $5-$10 for if they're enjoying them? You don't need to play them and there will still be plenty of awesome games out there.
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It doesn't really "matter", except to further facilitate the creation of games that not everybody wants to play.
 
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Disp_sl

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Still don't see why people care. Does Activision pushing out CoD 24 1/2 stop other good games from being created? No. It's like the music industry being dominated by shitty, watered down pop music over the past 5-ish years. That hasn't stopped truck loads of amazing music from coming out. Just buy, listen, and play stuff that you enjoy and ignore the rest. There's no shortage of awesome video games and music coming out every day unless that's what you want to believe.
 
kudos

kudos

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Disp_sl said:
Still don't see why people care. Does Activision pushing out CoD 24 1/2 stop other good games from being created? No. It's like the music industry being dominated by shitty, watered down pop music over the past 5-ish years. That hasn't stopped truck loads of amazing music from coming out. Just buy, listen, and play stuff that you enjoy and ignore the rest. There's no shortage of awesome video games and music coming out every day unless that's what you want to believe.
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CoD is to FPS what WoW is to MMORPG.
 
Sylas

Sylas

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Don't really understand the hate to be honest. Is this game for everyone? No. It's the latest in the recent trend of fast paced action-MMOs, which is what most recent MMOs have been doing, those that aren't straight up WoW clones. This one happens to be the most committed to being an Action-MMO of the current crop, which is good because it's the best of them all. It has the most challenging and engaging combat of this style of MMOs. Personally I prefer this style of arcade-ish gameplay (it's very FPSish) to anything else out there in MMOs. If you don't, then who cares? Don't play. The only other game I play is Eve because nothing can really compare to it's sandbox/pvp/drama/community. But for running through dungeons and killing monsters and shit? This game is the best there is atm.

For me I hated when MMOs went towards more abilities/more action bar style combat which culminated in the ultimate shit hole whack-a-mole click fest bullshit that they called "combat" in EQ2. I don't think I could ever go back to standing there and staring at action bars or using my mouse to click on abilities. I think that shit is gay as fuck. Whatev, obviously a lot of people like that style of play. There's plenty of WoW clones out there for you to choose from if that's your thing.

If you don't like these types of games, don't play them. It's not like you dropped $ on the box and have any justification whatsoever for being all butthurt about it.
 
kudos

kudos

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Sylas_sl said:
Don't really understand the hate to be honest. Is this game for everyone? No. It's the latest in the recent trend of fast paced action-MMOs, which is what most recent MMOs have been doing, those that aren't straight up WoW clones. This one happens to be the most committed to being an Action-MMO of the current crop, which is good because it's the best of them all. It has the most challenging and engaging combat of this style of MMOs. Personally I prefer this style of arcade-ish gameplay (it's very FPSish) to anything else out there in MMOs. If you don't, then who cares? Don't play. The only other game I play is Eve because nothing can really compare to it's sandbox/pvp/drama/community. But for running through dungeons and killing monsters and shit? This game is the best there is atm.

For me I hated when MMOs went towards more abilities/more action bar style combat which culminated in the ultimate shit hole whack-a-mole click fest bullshit that they called "combat" in EQ2. I don't think I could ever go back to standing there and staring at action bars or using my mouse to click on abilities. I think that shit is gay as fuck. Whatev, obviously a lot of people like that style of play. There's plenty of WoW clones out there for you to choose from if that's your thing.

If you don't like these types of games, don't play them. It's not like you dropped $ on the box and have any justification whatsoever for being all butthurt about it.
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Combat isn't the bad part of this game. The "world" which is a joke and grouping is.
 
Q

qwertyqweqwertwqert

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Combat was quite good. But I hated the world, the grouping, and the way progression works, and the quest grind. Put that combat in a proper 'world' and I'd be very happy.
 
A

axeman_sl

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Don't really understand the hate to be honest.
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My problem with it is that it's another in a long line of MMORPGs that were intentionally half-assed. This is not a game made by people trying to make the best game they can make, this is a game made by people trying to minimize cost and implement as many cash grabs as at all possible. It's the McDonalds of games, intentionally low quality; and it's a phenomenon that's starting to completely take over the entire genre. "But they're just trying to make money and can't be faulted for maximizing profits," people often argue. Perhaps, but what they're really doing is grab what money they can now and, in the process, all but ensure that there won't be any money to grab five years from now.

The MMORPG genre is in total collapse, it's an actively dying genre precisely because the would-be customers have been so resoundingly deterred by a decade where 95% of all MMORPGs released have been utter garbage. Releasing another garbage title is just another nail in the coffin of the genre, and while they might make some easy money off of it now, all these MMORPG development studios will find in about five year's time that the genre for which they've specialized suddenly no longer exists. Then it'll be hard to justify "just wanting to make money." Destroying a genre with greed and lack of professional integrity is not really excusable.

Developers and publishers have spent the last eight or so years trying to get away with shoddy, unserious efforts at tricking people into thinking they're paying for serious and well-meaning MMORPGs, and it has gotten to the point where they've burned their bridges and can no longer make anything else even if they wanted to because nobody would ever dream of investing the kind of money it costs to make a decent MMORPG with quality and longevity after seeing practically every MMORPG released since WoW crash and burn within a year.
 
Sylas

Sylas

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Who the fuck is being tricked into paying for this game? Seriously? You think Cryptic (lol) went out and tricked a bunch of venture capitalists with this MMO utopia "Vision" and released this shit instead? What do you think this is, Vanguard? You wanna blame anyone for genre going to shit take a look there instead (and in the mirror)

It's PWE, yeah they're they're CashGrab McDonalds shit. They know exactly what they are doing and where their revenue comes from, they aren't sucking microsoft's dick in back alleys trying to save their "vision" or showing up with hat in hand getting sued by state legislatures for bankrupting rhode island or anything.

Combat was quite good. But I hated the world, the grouping, and the way progression works, and the quest grind. Put that combat in a proper 'world' and I'd be very happy.
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Combat is great, graphics are awesome (the only real complaint here is lack of unique textures for armor making everyone look the same). The "world" is whatever. If you like D&D/Forgotten realms it's cool, it's just like every other D&D based game where you use your map to travel to places instead of having to walk places but the zones are large and fleshed out and full of shit to do so I can't really complain.

Grouping? it's the same as any other MMO, join a guild so you don't have to group with tards, can't really fault an MMO for groups.

Progression seems fine, just like any other game really. hit level cap, do some pvp to get better gear so you can go into t1 dungeons to get better gear so that you can go into T2 dungeons so you can get better gear so that you can go into castle never. After that you farm gear to sell to bads who p2w so you can upgrade enchants. If you hate pvp then the progression is missing a step I guess, but they just added Gauntlgrym which is the intermediate "just hit level cap and still running around in greens and need better gear to do real dungeons with" step.

Quest Grind? it's like 3-4 days to max level. what grind?

I'm not saying this game is the holy grail or anything, it's a buggy exploitative steaming pile of shit in a lot of ways. But it's a: fun and b: free so I don't really see the justification to complain. I hit level cap a month ago and effectively maxed geared several weeks ago and i'm still actively engaged and playing the game (on the same character even!) which is more than I can say for any other MMO released in the last 8 years most of which I paid atleast a box price if not a subscription for.
 
Malinatar

Malinatar

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I want to start off by saying I had fun with the game and went in knowing exactly what it was going to be (relatively rushed, free to play/cash grab game) and there I don't believe were any illusions from anyone stating things otherwise. However I do understand some of the vitriol because if we stop caring, the MMO genre is then essentially dead (and it might very well be heading that way).
 
Ninen

Ninen

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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axeman_sl said:
My problem with it is that it's another in a long line of MMORPGs that were intentionally half-assed. This is not a game made by people trying to make the best game they can make, this is a game made by people trying to minimize cost and implement as many cash grabs as at all possible. It's the McDonalds of games, intentionally low quality; and it's a phenomenon that's starting to completely take over the entire genre. "But they're just trying to make money and can't be faulted for maximizing profits," people often argue. Perhaps, but what they're really doing is grab what money they can now and, in the process, all but ensure that there won't be any money to grab five years from now.

The MMORPG genre is in total collapse, it's an actively dying genre precisely because the would-be customers have been so resoundingly deterred by a decade where 95% of all MMORPGs released have been utter garbage. Releasing another garbage title is just another nail in the coffin of the genre, and while they might make some easy money off of it now, all these MMORPG development studios will find in about five year's time that the genre for which they've specialized suddenly no longer exists. Then it'll be hard to justify "just wanting to make money." Destroying a genre with greed and lack of professional integrity is not really excusable.

Developers and publishers have spent the last eight or so years trying to get away with shoddy, unserious efforts at tricking people into thinking they're paying for serious and well-meaning MMORPGs, and it has gotten to the point where they've burned their bridges and can no longer make anything else even if they wanted to because nobody would ever dream of investing the kind of money it costs to make a decent MMORPG with quality and longevity after seeing practically every MMORPG released since WoW crash and burn within a year.
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You have valid points, but on the whole, it's just a bunch of the same old Doom Song that various people have been singing since EQ took over from UO.

 
kudos

kudos

<Banned>
2,363
695
Sylas_sl said:
Who the fuck is being tricked into paying for this game? Seriously? You think Cryptic (lol) went out and tricked a bunch of venture capitalists with this MMO utopia "Vision" and released this shit instead? What do you think this is, Vanguard? You wanna blame anyone for genre going to shit take a look there instead (and in the mirror)

It's PWE, yeah they're they're CashGrab McDonalds shit. They know exactly what they are doing and where their revenue comes from, they aren't sucking microsoft's dick in back alleys trying to save their "vision" or showing up with hat in hand getting sued by state legislatures for bankrupting rhode island or anything.


Combat is great, graphics are awesome (the only real complaint here is lack of unique textures for armor making everyone look the same). The "world" is whatever. If you like D&D/Forgotten realms it's cool, it's just like every other D&D based game where you use your map to travel to places instead of having to walk places but the zones are large and fleshed out and full of shit to do so I can't really complain.

Grouping? it's the same as any other MMO, join a guild so you don't have to group with tards, can't really fault an MMO for groups.

Progression seems fine, just like any other game really. hit level cap, do some pvp to get better gear so you can go into t1 dungeons to get better gear so that you can go into T2 dungeons so you can get better gear so that you can go into castle never. After that you farm gear to sell to bads who p2w so you can upgrade enchants. If you hate pvp then the progression is missing a step I guess, but they just added Gauntlgrym which is the intermediate "just hit level cap and still running around in greens and need better gear to do real dungeons with" step.

Quest Grind? it's like 3-4 days to max level. what grind?

I'm not saying this game is the holy grail or anything, it's a buggy exploitative steaming pile of shit in a lot of ways. But it's a: fun and b: free so I don't really see the justification to complain. I hit level cap a month ago and effectively maxed geared several weeks ago and i'm still actively engaged and playing the game (on the same character even!) which is more than I can say for any other MMO released in the last 8 years most of which I paid atleast a box price if not a subscription for.
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We could list everything wrong with the game but you will just counter it by saying "welp this game isn't for you". Which is fine, but that doesn't make the game any better. The consensus is that the game isn't enthralling and doesn't promote exploration. The dungeons aren't anything special, either (yes I've done the foundry shit too).
 
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