NFL 2018 - 2019 -- Watch America's favorite sport wither away and die

There are a few reasons I take Brady over Montana. Montana had weapons, coach and defense.
Outside the coach...one of the two were missing most years for Brady. Montana also did NOT take teams to SB's that were mediocre. They never got out the divisional round I THINK a couple times. BUT the Giants and Redskins were WAAAY tougher than anything the Pats faced IMO...so I'm on the fence there.
Free agency. You could keep a team together much longer back then.
The coaches were a wash IMO. Bill Walsh was as great a coach in the NFL back then as BB is now. I mean Christ he changed the way teams played offense.

Knock on Brady...Every single year they get a free pass into the playoffs. Making it the Pats against the field most years in the AFC.

Jay Gruden the new Jeff Fisher?

Redskins record last 2 games: 1-1
last 4 games: 2-2
last 6: 3-3
last 10: 5-5
last 12: 6-6
last 14: 7-7
last 20: 10-10
last 33: 16-16-1
last 37: 18-18-1
last 57: 28-28-1

Marvin taught him well.

Brady had Moss for a year and still couldnt do it. So, the didnt have talent thing is bullshit. In fact, when all of you are ballwashing Brady for bringing them back in that game they were supposed to blow the Giants out of the water with their high flying offense which didnt do shit all game. IE BRADY AND THE OFFENSE PUTTING UP A MILLION POINTS A GAME MASSIVELY DID JACK SHIT AND UNDERPERFORMED. Conveniently left that out of your narrative didnt you?

Im sick of listening to you retards say Brady had no talent around him. His defense carried them to how many of those SB wins again?
How many guys of the caliber below has Rodgers played with again?
Vince Wilfork
Lawyer Milloy
Willie McGinest
Ty Law
Tedy Bruschi
Richard Seymour
Mike Vrabel

Yeaaaaaaaaaaa. NO TALENT. And thats just the early 2000s defense, not counting Chung, Chandler Jones and the list goes on and on. ALL Brady amirite? He drafted all those guys and coached defense....

Fight said:

The way I like to settle these all-time, best of the best arguments is to have a theoretical draft.

Knowing every guys skill and accomplishments, who is your #1 draft pick to have them from the start of their careers to the conclusion? Yes, longevity and health matters just as much as peak skill. So does the ability to step up in the clutch. The intangibles count the same way accumulation of career stats do.

Who is the guy you take with your #1 pick, with team success over the course of their career being your number one priority?

I think I trust Aaron Rogers the most to take him with my #1 pick.

Brady is the all-time best, but what if he ends up on a Bill Belichick'less Browns team for his entire career? If either Rogers or Brady ends up on the Browns for their entire career, who do we look back and say, "Man the Browns suck, but you know Brady/Rogers was pretty good". I will take Rogers in that scenario.

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1st pick - Belichick
2nd pick - Belichick's cameraman

Genjiro said:

Brady had Moss for a year and still couldnt do it.

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I mean...he hit Moss in the end zone to put his team up 4 with under 3 minutes to go in the Super Bowl. Of those players you listed on D: Bruschi, Seymour, Wilfork, Vrabel (and Seau on that team)...couldn't hold the fort for 2 minutes 42 seconds. If they carried him to other Super Bowls, they damn sure didn't carry anyone when it mattered that night.

Merrith said:

I mean...he hit Moss in the end zone to put his team up 4 with under 3 minutes to go in the Super Bowl. Of those players you listed on D: Bruschi, Seymour, Wilfork, Vrabel (and Seau on that team)...couldn't hold the fort for 2 minutes 42 seconds. If they carried him to other Super Bowls, they damn sure didn't carry anyone when it mattered that night.

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Kinda dumb to discount the other 57 minutes of the game to try to prove your point. If you're the greatest offense of all time, you should be able to put up more than 17 points.

Yeah, the "greatest" offense of all time scoring 14 points is kind of the big story there, not that he was able to score 7 of those points near the end of the game.

Merrith said:

I mean...he hit Moss in the end zone to put his team up 4 with under 3 minutes to go in the Super Bowl. Of those players you listed on D: Bruschi, Seymour, Wilfork, Vrabel (and Seau on that team)...couldn't hold the fort for 2 minutes 42 seconds. If they carried him to other Super Bowls, they damn sure didn't carry anyone when it mattered that night.

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Montana hit Taylor in the end zone to put his team up 4 with 30 seconds to go in Super Bowl 23, capping off a 92 yard drive that took 2.5 minutes.

Ambiturner said:

Kinda dumb to discount the other 57 minutes of the game to try to prove your point. If you're the greatest offense of all time, you should be able to put up more than 17 points.

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We've gone over this a time or two before I think. It's not discounting the other 57 minutes at all, but when the Pats needed a scoring drive to either tie the game (FG) or take the lead (TD) they got the TD. When the D needed to only prevent a TD, they weren't able to pull it off.

If we're going to hold those greats on D up as people who carried him to Super Bowls, we also have to acknowledge when he handed them a situation to help deliver another...and they were unable to answer the bell.

Gavinmad said:

Montana hit Taylor in the end zone to put his team up 4 with 30 seconds to go in Super Bowl 23, capping off a 92 yard drive that took 2.5 minutes.

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Not sure how this relates other than to note that the Bengals defense can't be given credit for carrying Boomer Esiason to a Super Bowl win just like we can't credit the Pat's D for doing so wit Brady in '07.

Merrith said:

Not sure how this relates other than to note that the Bengals defense can't be given credit for carrying Boomer Esiason to a Super Bowl win just like we can't credit the Pat's D for doing so wit Brady in '07.

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I'm just parachuting in to remind you chumps that Montana > Brady.

Merrith said:

We've gone over this a time or two before I think. It's not discounting the other 57 minutes at all, but when the Pats needed a scoring drive to either tie the game (FG) or take the lead (TD) they got the TD. When the D needed to only prevent a TD, they weren't able to pull it off.

If we're going to hold those greats on D up as people who carried him to Super Bowls, we also have to acknowledge when he handed them a situation to help deliver another...and they were unable to answer the bell.

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Oops my fault, Patriots only put up 14 points. It's also silly to describe it as "when they needed it". Pats were down the whole 4th quarter and had 2 turnover on downs and 2 punts "when they needed it". Patriots even got the ball back with 30 seconds and 2 timeouts and just needed to get into FG range but the offense only managed to lose 10 yards.

Pats also going for it on 4th and 13 instead of kicking a FG from the Giants 31 is another head scratcher.

Point is, blaming the defense because of 1 miracle drive where Eli Manning broke 47 tackles and a player caught the ball off his helmet while coming 3 nanometers from hitting the ground is crazy talk.

Merrith said:

I mean...he hit Moss in the end zone to put his team up 4 with under 3 minutes to go in the Super Bowl. Of those players you listed on D: Bruschi, Seymour, Wilfork, Vrabel (and Seau on that team)...couldn't hold the fort for 2 minutes 42 seconds. If they carried him to other Super Bowls, they damn sure didn't carry anyone when it mattered that night.

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They averaged THIRTY SEVEN POINT EIGHT POINTS A GAME in 2007

The Patriots D HELD THE GIANTS TO 3 POINTS UNTIL THE 4TH QUARTER

Are you fucking serious? Get the fuck out. You get out derped by the king of Derp in the Super Bowl because your perfect season highest scoring offense of all time didnt do anything all game and couldnt score more than 14 points. You are seriously blaming this on the defense to defend your awful logic.

zzeris said:

Without Darth Bill, Brady would be doing clean up after the starter went down somewhere like Cleveland.

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Eh, more likely he'd be another Rodgers. Lots of talent but without the supporting cast for sustained success.

According to ESPN's Ian O'Connor, Brady once told an NFL coach how he feels Rodgers would do if given the "Patriots' offensive scheme and institutional knowledge on opposing defenses."

"He'd throw for 7,000 yards every year," Brady reportedly told the NFL coach. "He's so much more talented than me."

Ambiturner said:

Oops my fault, Patriots only put up 14 points. It's also silly to describe it as "when they needed it". Pats were down the whole 4th quarter and had 2 turnover on downs and 2 punts "when they needed it". Patriots even got the ball back with 30 seconds and 2 timeouts and just needed to get into FG range but the offense only managed to lose 10 yards.

Pats also going for it on 4th and 13 instead of kicking a FG from the Giants 31 is another head scratcher.

Point is, blaming the defense because of 1 miracle drive where Eli Manning broke 47 tackles and a player caught the ball off his helmet while coming 3 nanometers from hitting the ground is crazy talk.

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I'm not so much "blaming" their D just noting if we're propping them up for carrying them (not so much you making that statement, mostly Genj) to titles, we can certainly point out another chance for them to win one in which they failed to do so. It's not silly to describe it as "when they needed it", else no one would keep track of 4th Quarter or OT comeback wins by QB's, etc. Saying they had 2 turnover on downs/2 punts wasn't 'when they needed it"...because obviously they scored later to take the lead. 29 seconds and 2 timeouts to gain 40+ yards is within the realm of possibility, but nowhere near enough time to comfortably expect it unless penalty aided.

Genjiro said:

They averaged THIRTY SEVEN POINT EIGHT POINTS A GAME in 2007

The Patriots D HELD THE GIANTS TO 3 POINTS UNTIL THE 4TH QUARTER

Are you fucking serious? Get the fuck out. You get out derped by the king of Derp in the Super Bowl because your perfect season highest scoring offense of all time didnt do anything all game and couldnt score more than 14 points. You are seriously blaming this on the defense to defend your awful logic.

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Happened twice against the King of Derp. Not solely blaming them as the only reason, but if we give them all the credit in other games where the offense still pulled their weight at the end to win SB's, we can point out when the D did not get the job done late as well. Holding them to 3 points in the first 3 quarters is great...until you give up the lead twice in the 4th.