Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Erronius_sl said:

That seems like a really convoluted justification but it's your money, LOL.

Myself, there's probably no way I'd ever donate to a kickstarter for Brad. After the bullshit in EQ followed by the INCREDIBLE amount if lies and bullshit that he spewed on FOH about VG, I just can't justify giving him a single cent until he has a final product that I can look at and judge on it's own merits. How any of the old school FOH peeps can give him the benefit of the doubt given his track record is beyond me.

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I don't understand the hate. Vanguard was a good game and it was worth the money I spent on it. Honestly the biggest problem with vanguard was simply that it was too performance hungry. If he can learn from that mistake, this game will have a decent chance of succeeding.

The notion of this kickstarter raising anything north of $2mill is unlikely anyway, imo. Maybe I'm wrong there. Hopefully I'm wrong.

How are the odds of building a PVE-DIKU with $2mill? I honestly dont know but I think low-to-none? Which means the kickstarter needs a company backing it. What are the odds of a PVE MMO backed by a company that ultimately wants profit sticking to the vision we here have for the game? Again i think low-to-none. So I guess I'm a hopeful pessimist or something because while I want this to become a thing, I just dont see it happening without a publisher, and that means at best it'll be a game that's fun for half a year before focus group "improvements" are pushed into the game.

If they are smart with multi-access packs they could raise a lot of money.

I would gladly donate just for the(false)hope of getting my old crew together on atrueEQ-like enviroment.

pharmakos_sl said:

are there any free/open source 3D engines that they could use for the game instead of building something new/paying to license an existing one?

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something horrible like unity 3d. please don't use unity, brad.

I still think Brad is in bed with SOE in some way shape or form, but we'll see if that turns out to be true soon enough.

Brad is like that odd item in the kitchen drawer , you can never quite bring yourself too throw out . Cause you just might need it one day. Know I have some junk that has been traveling round the globe since the 60's when my dad picked it up.

Once upon a time I tried too convince the service , that it would be cheaper to just cut me a check , rather than move a ton of books. Nope. Fuck em they have moved 2000 lbs of books over 15 times since then .

Tmac47_sl said:

Wat?

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I think he is saying he works for the armed services and that they pay for his moving expenses when they move him around the world. He has a large number of books that are expensive to ship, it would be better for them to reimburse him for and destroy the books than to keep shipping them around as part of his compensation. They refuse to do this because lolgovernment.

Erronius_sl said:

That seems like a really convoluted justification but it's your money, LOL.

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Yes it is. Simpler version: the question has been raised many times whether there is sufficient money and interest out there to crowd source a Diku based MMO. Brad's kickstarter is an ok (not good) test to see if there is sufficient money and interest. So it is worth contributing even though I agree he will probably fail.

@Creed. A diku mud can be built for cheap if zones are used, there aren't any flying mounts (Lev is ok) and you use willing slave labor to help with quest building and similar labor intensive crap. It's the seemless world, flying mount chrome that increases the art and development costs exponentially.

Quaid_sl said:

I still think Brad is in bed with SOE in some way shape or form, but we'll see if that turns out to be true soon enough.

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I agree.

Erronius_sl said:

The reason I even protest in the first place, given that this is"your money", is that I doubt the only message sent by doing this is one of"there is demand for another EQ1/VG". Brad may very well take away the message that no matter what he does or how spectacularly he fails, that people will still throw money at him regardless of his track record. Meaning that he'll be able to endlessly milk the people that complain so loudly about the state of MMOs.

The other potential message...investors that give no fucks about MMOs are going to look at this Kickstarter and immediately wonder that if a niche game/genre like this can get, say, $2m then what would a WOW-clone kickstarter be able to generate. $3m? $4m? Not to mention that seeing Brad get funding given his past might make others think that you don't really need to succeed, just spam a new project/game at every opportunity because there will always be people willing to throw many at random_game_04 while desperately hoping that maybe that game might be worth it.

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I thought we all agreed that you don't need to succeed in this industry to get a 2nd, 3rd and 4th shot at making a game? I mean look at Marc Jacobs=P

For me.. the difference is Brad actually owned a lot of his mistakes. That's why I'm giving him a shot at this. I think he is genuinely remorseful about what happen with VG and does care about his reputation and legacy going forward. I also think he's learned from those mistakes. Call me naive but it's just the vibe I get from reading his blog and my interaction with him. I also take into account his other issues. I don't think that was the same person who produced EQ or the guy we are dealing with now. the old saying goes... Addiction is a terrible thing. I know that personally from family. He has to earn back a lot of peoples trust. That's on him. Hopefully he will recognize that and do it but ultimately he needs to just release a good, working MMO. Let the game do his talking long term. He won't get a 3rd shot at this and I'm betting he knows that.

If Brad has a back room deal with SOE, I doubt it'll come out anytime soon. He's smart if he tries to leverage their tech resources under the table to save some time and money. I'm not sure what Smed gets out of it, though.

Erronius_sl said:

The reason I even protest in the first place, given that this is"your money", is that I doubt the only message sent by doing this is one of"there is demand for another EQ1/VG". Brad may very well take away the message that no matter what he does or how spectacularly he fails, that people will still throw money at him regardless of his track record.

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A valid point but since I've only got his EQ clone project to throw my money/vote at, he gets it by default. With respect to a WoW clone kickstarter, who cares? Won't get my money and has no affect on my life if it thrives or dies.

Gecko_sl said:

If Brad has a back room deal with SOE, I doubt it'll come out anytime soon. He's smart if he tries to leverage their tech resources under the table to save some time and money. I'm not sure what Smed gets out of it, though.

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If Brad beats the billion to one odds and delivers a decent (not great that would be impossible) MMO, SOE buys it from him for cheap and Smed gets EQ3 without any development costs and associated risk. Where upon SOE will slowly but surely fuck it up.