Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

bayr_sl

shitlord
715
0
The trick is to set the initial goal so incredibly low this time his loyal followers will be able to reach it, then he can cash out for sure. What did they reach last time, like 220k? That would have been a good 20k for development costs and 200k for Brad
 

Convo

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
8,761
613
Brad time

K-Tam, this is a warning -- research before you post so confidently about something you certainly are dead wrong about. We have been honest from the beginning that the crowdfunding was to get us to a point to where we could have what we needed to reach out to investors. You are looking for honesty? Look for accuracy too plz. We've talked, I've received multiple emails asking for you to be removed from these forums. I've held my ground that I don't like silencing people. But this is rediculous. This is from the Kickstarter FAQ:Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen by Visionary Realms, Inc. KickstarterFAQ is at the bottom. Question: Doesn't it take more than $800K to make an MMO? Answer: Yes it does. Our intent for this Kickstarter is first to prove that there's enough of a demand for a group focused game that believes in the experience of the game instead of handholding, and to get the ball rolling on development. If we can get to the goal we will have proved that and will have enough to get this game started and be able to get our studio set up and operational. If we only get to the goal and little more, then we will visit other funding opportunities but first and foremost we wanted to make it possible to be completely crowdfunded so that you, the players, have more to do with what goes into the game than other powers would should we need to turn to those options later. --- I've also posted all over the place that this game would take $8M-$12M and 3 years to make (I've recently changed that to $10M-$12M after doign some serious spreadsheeting. Yes, if we could have pulled a Star Citizen, we'd not have to look for investors. But that wasn't a promise or anything of the sort. I've posted about the demo, and not just recently. I've posted that we need funding to get an office. I've posted that we need funding to make people full employees. I can dig all of this stuff up, and so can anyone. Did you make any attempt to? We may disagree, but your integrity is why you're still here. Was I wrong to try not to censor people with controversial or conflicting opinions? Lastly, let's give some credit to gamers in general -- does anyone really think and did anyone EVER think we were going to make Pantheon for $800k? Come on now. -Brad ps. If someone from here would like to address this issue on MMORPG that would be fantastic. At this point it's best that others stick up for Pantheon on other boards -- more productive and more convincing, given all that is goign on. That is not to say that, at some point, I won't return.
 

Tauro

Bronze Knight of the Realm
371
26
So, another kickstarter soonish? Well, i guess Brad telling us that they will not do another crowdfunding (except on their own site) is no longer true. Very good, i cant wait for it, 30 days+ of pure AAA entertainment
smile.png


Bayr, they got to 460k....
 

Adebisi

Clump of Cells
<Silver Donator>
27,680
32,723
The only way he'll break 500K on a new crowdfund is if he lures people who have never heard of him or Pantheon before :S And what's the point in another KS? I'll tell ya... it's to raise 400K tops so you can lure a big fish to give you millions. Face it "apprentice devs", you're nothing more than fishbait so Brad can catch the real supporters.

Therious question: who buys a studio with their limited crowdfunding money?

And the final obvious note here: everything that's been done to this point should've been done before the first KS. That demo should've been the centerpiece of the KS.
 

Tauro

Bronze Knight of the Realm
371
26
Really, the only way he would stand a chance to even get to the same amount they had in the first KS is a demo that blows people away. Good polish, good art, combat system fleshed out, 1 area + 1 dungeon playable, several classes inculded, grouping functional, looting functional, etc... i believe it when i see it
wink.png
 

Adebisi

Clump of Cells
<Silver Donator>
27,680
32,723
It's getting hot in here (so hot)
so take off all your clothes

KTAM on Pantheon Forums_sl said:
You should really think about the can of worms you are opening up here. Look in your e-mail.

This, like everything is opinion based on the available information presented.

I will say this. No where on this site does or has it ever said that crowd funding was going to be put towards a demo. It was stated implicitly on the landing page "Full On Development Mode". The FACTS are on this site, they are in YOUR words and you can try and twist them like you have others all you like it doesn't change anything.

I don't need to post a bunch of numbers to distract from the facts. This isn't about how much an MMO costs. This has to do with your honesty and integrity and if not for the FACT that I am honoring NDA's and the trust of not only your Dev team but even SOE people who have messaged me I might consider sharing it. I am thinking about the people that were actually making the game you were banking on profiting with. People who say you screwed them to paraphrase.

Here is your mistake. You are accusing me of only pointing out the information that is already freely available. I am not saying anything that someone else hasn't said before me. People in the know, people that were supposed to be your friends and who trusted you. Other than Tom who else on the team is still with you?

What does "Full on Development mode" mean?

In your blog on march 14th where in there was a Demo listed on your To Do list? Everything else was mentioned that was completed lore wise and a few other details. Even in your paragraph about making the term sheets there was no mention of a Demo.

When was the mention of a demo made prior to your big announcement on K-TAM which your own Dev team forced you to make because none of them would take the fall for you? Your own PR guy quit on you and walked not looking back. We knew that combat systems were being made but no working demo for investors.

I have offered you every chance to talk about this openly and honestly either in private or with the community. I have kept our conversations private while you have not done the same. Talk about a lack of respect. How do I know? I am better connected than you think obviously.

No where on this site has a demo ever been mentioned, nor has it been said that the funding was for the exclusive creation of a demo. We all pledged with the understanding it was to develop the game. We asked you how the community could help and you pretty much said unless we can sit you in front of an investor we were useless.

We had Devs telling us that you took a lion share of the money for yourself and on top of that there were other financial discrepancies. Let's use the word we are trying to avoid. Embezzlement. We had several Devs tell us you paid them less than what they had in monthly bills for 6+ months work and never paid them for their costs while you made off with as much as 2/3 of the money pledged I have heard rumored. These are not my words, this is based on the combined information provided by the Dev team based on all of their comments on K-TAM and in your own chat room.

You have people spying for you on K-TAM (Nibbs) and you have other members playing you for a fool and working all sides for their own ends.

Your own team has called you a liar and untrustworthy some directly and others strongly implied and you have backed that up by trying to convince people this site requires hundreds and maybe thousands of dollars to maintain and that future pledges and subs wont be going to fund development but to maintain this web site, which at best is $200/year and was created with the help of volunteers.

You want to Ban be from the site? I am one of the very few who are not blindly worshiping at your feet. I am also one of the few trying to find the truth and a reason to continue to help see this project succeed. Asking Questions shoud NEVER be a crime, but apparently that is not allowed here which is why everyone of the remaining Devs comes to K-TAM to talk with us where is it open, honest and there is a freedom of speech. We will be having a bunch of them on K-TAM very soon for a fun and friendly chat not about Pantheon because we have fostered a great relationship with them, Trust and all that.

You have not engaged me or the community in any meaningful dialouge. You post light and fluffy and you let your fanboi's defend you and then you come out with legal threats of slander against people with absolutely no basis for it.

Let me school you sir. Slander is the hardest thing to prove in court #1, #2 you must also prove damages, #3 you need to collect #4 often the cost of such an act is more costly than what you might get in a settlement, that cost usually more reputation based than not and in the gaming community it would seal your fate and you likely would never work in the industry again.

I already have it from on SOE person - "There is no way for Brad to remain involved with any project with those guys. There is no game. It's done. Those guys could move forward and do something else, but Pantheon is toast. Nobody will work with Brad again IMO. Worse, he's lost a lot of VERY close friends as a result of this. I wish the rest of the guys the best of luck. There are a few people on that team who REALLY deserve a break." This is just a part of it.

#1 I have not slandered anyone. I quote information provided to me by this site, yourself and the dev team based on open discussions. We have had a lot of private ones too and if I could share those you would likely be marched soundly off this site, even by your own die hard supporters. You don't think the team didn't compare pay checks against the total? It's not hard to do simple addition and subtraction.

#2 This project failed at the Kickstarter. In what way has anyone else but you, by your own admission you took full responsibility for that failure many time over. Even today you have freely admitted you should have done a number of things a long time ago. Things this community suggested to you weeks and months ago. You can't prove damages when you accepted fault publicly in various places on various sites and in your own voice on K-TAM, Boogie and Rob & Dan.

#3 I don't live in California or even in the U.S.A. I am out side of your jurisdiction. There is nothing you can do and there is no extradition for a civil suits. Even the NDA is not binding on me, I respect the NDA out of principle, not because I am bound by it.

#4 you are broke. If you actually had the money to pay a lawyer you would have sent me a cease and desist letter already and you would never have made that post threating your community and developer team. That was a fear tactic because YOU are scared.

I have nothing to fear from you. You are only a man with 2 failed projects. You were once a God and Pantheon was supposed to be your new house, and the metaphor of Rise of the Fallen was apt if it succeeded. Ironc that you didn't even choose the name.

The bigger shame is this was Tony's idea and he gave it to you as his trusted friend and look at what you have done with it.

Now, you can pick a fight with me and likely look like a fool and an idiot for arguing with a Internet radio station and provide me with hundreds more listeners and hurt any future chance you have at making this work...

OR.

You can man up and have a reasonable conversation with me about how we can work as a team to get some supporters on board and see if there is something to salvage from all this. We can only talk about what people give us to talk about. You want us to talk more positive you need to provide it. We don't make this stuff up out of thin air.

It's your call. It's your game, your site and you. This is ALL YOU.

I can continue this here or out in the greater community.
I am
feeling so hot
I wanna fund an MMO
 

Tauro

Bronze Knight of the Realm
371
26
Wow, KTAM is really pissed... thats the drama we want to see (not really, but what else is there? Certainly nothing related to the proposed MMO).