Seananigans
Honorary Shit-PhD
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Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
- Thread starter gogojira_sl
- Start date
Hey, remember, I was a wizzy in pre-Velious. Even when we got ice comet we were rarely wanted until POP. I know what its like to sit LFG for hours on end.
tad10
Elisha Dushku
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Not really. It makes development easier because you know what to expect of the players when you're designing the content. You know a level 30 player is going to have X spells, roughly Y gear, etc.
Quaid
Trump's Staff
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He's a moron. It's becoming more and more clear with each post. His responses pretty much consist of 'quit whining and go back to WoW'. No use really speaking to him.
And Druids were just a poorly done class. I've always thought they should have had the melee slow debuff rather than shaman... But oh well
popsicledeath
Potato del Grande
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I liked EQ because it was almost always better to have someone you liked to talk to and who wasn't an idiot.
Of course, now days everyone knows everything, and it's all about gear checks and following the published strat. Yawn.
Harfle
Lord Nagafen Raider
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have a feeling we got another one of these coming our way.http://www.providencejournal.com/bre...nformation.ece
It's never good when people quit due to bad design and easily fixable things. There is no downside to making sure balance isn't atrocious.
popsicledeath
Potato del Grande
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Was ice comet the go-to spell for group dps? I always thought it was just for big-badda-boom sorta stuff. That's like saying wizards were rarely wanted for groups even after getting manaburn.
I'm so confused!
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Quaid
Trump's Staff
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Too busy chatting with super friends to learn basic game mechanics? LmaoWas ice comet the go-to spell for group dps? I always thought it was just for big-badda-boom sorta stuff. That's like saying wizards were rarely wanted for groups even after getting manaburn.
I'm so confused!
Wizzys pre-POP were pretty much useless because when Velious was released we didn't have a spell, enough combination of spells to be useful to a group. We just simply did little to no DPS. Ice Comet at least gave us a "bomb" spell that I could cast at 30% that would straight up kill a mob dead. So the order was, sit and do nothing, at 30% cast Ice Comet, whole group praises your awsomeness............med to full to recast Ice Comet (took about 40% of your entire mana bar).Was ice comet the go-to spell for group dps? I always thought it was just for big-badda-boom sorta stuff. That's like saying wizards were rarely wanted for groups even after getting manaburn.
I'm so confused!
Wizards problem was obscene downtime. It's not really up for debate. The numbers are known and for xp groups wiz and dru were very low dps. And no it doesn't matter that in 1999 you didn't have a parser so grouped them anyway, we are talking design in 2014 not about how nice it would be to go back to 99 before we lost our virginity.
popsicledeath
Potato del Grande
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I guess I just don't ever remember having to praise a wizard for their awesomeness, then.
So, it's settled. Wizards and druids were both shit classes. Anyone else want to make their claims? Rangers? Warriors? Wait, Clerics were popular, but boring. Rogues, definitely. I don't know how many tanks then and now would complain that they and they alone were the only shitty tanking class.
So, basically everyone but Kunark-era monks sucked in EQ. And Bards, just because most people didn't even understand wtf they did or how they did it.
I'm starting to feel that the problem with EQ wasn't the classes or design, but that we were a bunch of whiny cunts.
Wait, edit, I remember being told I couldn't go on raids with my BST because the class was shit, and then being accused of cheating when I wasn't doing shit dps.
And boohooo my shaman sucks nobody ever wants me for anything but slow boo hoo.
popsicledeath
Potato del Grande
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Even with parsers we used to group the 'low dps' classes. And yeah, there were plenty of times on my wizard I'd med until half, cast, med until nearly dead, cast, etc. But there were also times when shit was hitting the fan and being able to burn down a mob, root for ghetto cc, or evac saved the fucking day.
Again. I think the problem isn't games, but us. We now expect every class to be high sustained dps while being able to tank, heal or cc the whole fucking time... and then we complain about hotkey bloat and that combat is spammy. And we look back and see how older games weren't perfect because everyone wasn't equal and bitch that it wasn't good either. Whatwouldbe good, then?
I guess I don't understand your argument. I'm thinking at this point your trolling. POP fixed the wizzy class and we were highly desirable. I never wanted for a group again when POP was released. I basically lived in Plane of Storms, Plane of Nightmare, Bastion of Thunder, Halls of Honor, and Plane of Torment for the next year. I wasn't a "whiny cunt", but until POP, I really wasn't need in groups because of my low DPS.
Edit: Which is why it was so popular for wizzy to be found in Cobalt Scar. We would quad when we couldn't find a group.
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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As a wizard I had some rough patches. For certain levels.. Kite groups were the worst to get in. Also a lot of groups preferred a Mage over a wizard later on. Just better sustained DPS. That doesn't change all the fun I had with my class.. I felt the sorc in VG was pretty lacking tho.. Especially early on
shabushabu
Molten Core Raider
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Reroll. . . . . If the game is not linear and the other classes are interesting enough you will want the ride of leveling again... that is the point,
Can we see a game where the journey is the destination again ?
Wtf does low mana Regen for wiz and druid have to do with ability bloat and tanking and ccing. Wiz and druid didn't do anything well except port. That has tick all to do with wanting everyone to do everything well.
popsicledeath
Potato del Grande
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Wait, we have to have a point?
I think my point was generally that the people behind the characters went a long way in EQ. We like to look back at the numbers and mechanics and give credit or criticism, when in reality it's a pretty relatively modern construct to only judge a class based on the maximum potential of the class. A construct very much created by instances and over-tuned encounter and hyper-active gameplay that focuses on dps and little more than whether you're able to mash the 'right' dps rotation.
I was probably playing a different version of EQ because I was doing so with friends and didn't have a min/max stick up my ass, but would argue that there WAS more than just dps that determined if you got a group in EQ (and every game I've played since, because that's how I choose to play and the type of people I choose to play with... who incidentally are usually pretty good at their classes anyhow). Different experiences, perhaps, but I'd argue that the instanced, one-and-done dungeon and like mechanics in modern games doesn't do anything but force us more toward looking at a player as the sum of their classes abilities and nothing more. I mean, I was one of those weirdos in a guild that didn't flip the fuck out if the bard stopped twisting to chat occasionally.
I don't think anyone, especially Brad, can make a game to appease the people who aren't happy unless everyone is in the 99 percentile of their class potential at all time and can't even spare 3 minutes so the cleric can go take a shit. This type of mentality isn't a problem that can be solved with game mechanics, as the woe-is-me or fuck-you-you're-not-leet-enough players are always going to find a reason to not be pleased enough with their class to have fun.
I think my point was generally that the people behind the characters went a long way in EQ. We like to look back at the numbers and mechanics and give credit or criticism, when in reality it's a pretty relatively modern construct to only judge a class based on the maximum potential of the class. A construct very much created by instances and over-tuned encounter and hyper-active gameplay that focuses on dps and little more than whether you're able to mash the 'right' dps rotation.
I was probably playing a different version of EQ because I was doing so with friends and didn't have a min/max stick up my ass, but would argue that there WAS more than just dps that determined if you got a group in EQ (and every game I've played since, because that's how I choose to play and the type of people I choose to play with... who incidentally are usually pretty good at their classes anyhow). Different experiences, perhaps, but I'd argue that the instanced, one-and-done dungeon and like mechanics in modern games doesn't do anything but force us more toward looking at a player as the sum of their classes abilities and nothing more. I mean, I was one of those weirdos in a guild that didn't flip the fuck out if the bard stopped twisting to chat occasionally.
I don't think anyone, especially Brad, can make a game to appease the people who aren't happy unless everyone is in the 99 percentile of their class potential at all time and can't even spare 3 minutes so the cleric can go take a shit. This type of mentality isn't a problem that can be solved with game mechanics, as the woe-is-me or fuck-you-you're-not-leet-enough players are always going to find a reason to not be pleased enough with their class to have fun.