Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
- Thread starter gogojira_sl
- Start date
zzeris
King Turd of Shit Hill
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That update sounded hilarious. Sonic Torque!! The Soundcloud Page! And perception...audio clue. Perception message scrolls across screen. " You hear a wolves howl..." Wolf howls a few seconds later in game. Brad and team starts masturbating furiously at this new aspect to modern throwbacks. How many investors is this going to bring in? Probably millions.
zzeris
King Turd of Shit Hill
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Dandai
<WoW Guild Officer>
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The reason the little details are missing from a lot of games is because they cost money. I wholeheartedly agree that the little details make (or break) games. I don't see Brad as the kind of developer that would say, "We need to delay the launch 6 more months to add the 'little details' so everyone can experience The Vision."
(Yes, I'm still bitter about Vanguard.)
(Yes, I'm still bitter about Vanguard.)
Dullahan
Golden Knight of the Realm
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- 256
I don't think anyone would say that. They are largely organic and added as you create something. They aren't really something you manufacture after the fact.
Dandai
<WoW Guild Officer>
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Are you using feels data as your guide? Because I can tell you as someone who's made games and someone who's followed the development of countless games, the "little details" are almost always added after the big details are finalized and locked in. Projects that make the little shit the same priority as the major features are doomed to delay, budget over runs, and being released before they're ready.
Convo
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Well for context, the particular system we are discussing is part of the perception system which is a big part of their game so I think we are safe there, but I get your point. They should really make sure the Pantheon Difference features are in and well tuned before even considering new stuff.
i like what i am seeing and hearing about this game, but i'm still pretty bitter about vanguard (i bought a new PC because i believed mcquaid and those silky venom fanboys telling me the performance issues were my fault).
i'll just stick to anarchy online and keep a skeptical eye on this. and yes, i trust funcom more than mcquaid.
i'll just stick to anarchy online and keep a skeptical eye on this. and yes, i trust funcom more than mcquaid.
Braen
<Medals Crew>
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Yeah yeah Ut, but what we really want to know is your opinion of this guy:
Visionary Realms Appoints David Reitman to Board of Directors | Visionary Realms
Visionary Realms Appoints David Reitman to Board of Directors | Visionary Realms
Valderen
Space Pirate
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Utnayan doesn't know him, so he's probably googling stuff about him trying to find some dirt on the guy.
Then it will be personal.
One of the big issues IMHO: (1) small dev team, (2) niche MMOG, (3) limited instancing.
There is going to be rampant hacking guaranteed and limited support personnel to deal with it.
EQ and VG had Sony money to deal with cheaters. That is not the case here.
There is going to be rampant hacking guaranteed and limited support personnel to deal with it.
EQ and VG had Sony money to deal with cheaters. That is not the case here.
Laura
Lord Nagafen Raider
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- 109
1) Does the small dev team matter if the game is to be released? I personally don't care.One of the big issues IMHO: (1) small dev team, (2) niche MMOG, (3) limited instancing.
There is going to be rampant hacking guaranteed and limited support personnel to deal with it.
EQ and VG had Sony money to deal with cheaters. That is not the case here.
2) Niche MMO; perfect this is exactly what some of us want. Remember, this MMO is targeted towards specific audience. From what I understand you're probably not the target audience.
3) Limited instance; this is exactly one of the reasons why many of us are excited.
And about hacking I've been playing MMOs for a long time and I've yet to see one which was hack free. Even Korean MMOs with an army of staff behind them hacking is usually rampant there.
Arden
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 2,648
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I would absolutely expect hacking/duping/bottling/gold farming/selling etc to be an issue with this game. It may be minimized early on due to the game's small size and minimal exposure, but as (or IF) the game gains an audience, these issues will increase drastically.
Two of the things I learned from policing that type of thing in VG were:
1. If you go through a third-party publisher that handles payments, it prevents you from effectively combating fraud.
2. If you want to be able to monitor and prevent hacking/fraud, you need to build tools into the game that enable your team to effectively do so from the ground up.
SOE published VG and handled CC payments, etc. They did a few things that really screwed us, like sending out thousands of free trial accounts (this might have been approved by someone at SGO, but if so we never found out who). Those trial accounts were immediately used by hackers/gold spammers to exploit the system. At that point, banning accounts became relatively pointless in most cases because the offenders would simply use another trial account. The silver lining was that even the trial accounts required a valid credit card, so if we banned credit cards instead of accounts, we could have been way more effective. That's when we ran into the second brick wall: SOE refused to give us any info regarding CC subscribers. We said, Ok, don't give us the info directly, but can you at least take an account name we give you and ban the CC linked to the account and all other accounts linked to that CC. I'm sure you can guess what the answer was.
The other end of it is that we constantly found ourselves needing tools to detect duping and bug exploitation. A tool that tracked the acquisition of resources like gold would have done wonders to prevent duping, to use just one example. While we did get some limited help with that type of thing from the programmers and database guy (there was really only one), they were all way too busy to try and implement some type of detection system in the game post-launch. Had that type of thing been anticipated from the beginning, it would have been much easier to build fraud detection measures into the system instead of trying to tack them on live.
Anyway, live and learn, but I imagine the Pantheon team would benefit from considering this type of thing as early as possible.
Two of the things I learned from policing that type of thing in VG were:
1. If you go through a third-party publisher that handles payments, it prevents you from effectively combating fraud.
2. If you want to be able to monitor and prevent hacking/fraud, you need to build tools into the game that enable your team to effectively do so from the ground up.
SOE published VG and handled CC payments, etc. They did a few things that really screwed us, like sending out thousands of free trial accounts (this might have been approved by someone at SGO, but if so we never found out who). Those trial accounts were immediately used by hackers/gold spammers to exploit the system. At that point, banning accounts became relatively pointless in most cases because the offenders would simply use another trial account. The silver lining was that even the trial accounts required a valid credit card, so if we banned credit cards instead of accounts, we could have been way more effective. That's when we ran into the second brick wall: SOE refused to give us any info regarding CC subscribers. We said, Ok, don't give us the info directly, but can you at least take an account name we give you and ban the CC linked to the account and all other accounts linked to that CC. I'm sure you can guess what the answer was.
The other end of it is that we constantly found ourselves needing tools to detect duping and bug exploitation. A tool that tracked the acquisition of resources like gold would have done wonders to prevent duping, to use just one example. While we did get some limited help with that type of thing from the programmers and database guy (there was really only one), they were all way too busy to try and implement some type of detection system in the game post-launch. Had that type of thing been anticipated from the beginning, it would have been much easier to build fraud detection measures into the system instead of trying to tack them on live.
Anyway, live and learn, but I imagine the Pantheon team would benefit from considering this type of thing as early as possible.
Rangoth
Blackwing Lair Raider
- 1,566
- 1,715
About hacking: Is it really a huge problem that affects the playerbase? Honest question, not rhetorical.
I mean in EQ yes someone ghost warping around sucked, especially for the non-instanced stuff. Later it didn't matter much since everything was instanced.
But in modern MMO's....WoW/FFXIV/Rift...was hacking an issue? I should specify that by hacking I mean real hacking. Not gold farming/selling.
I mean in EQ yes someone ghost warping around sucked, especially for the non-instanced stuff. Later it didn't matter much since everything was instanced.
But in modern MMO's....WoW/FFXIV/Rift...was hacking an issue? I should specify that by hacking I mean real hacking. Not gold farming/selling.
Skanda
I'm Amod too!
- 6,662
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It exists but these companies also invest resources into combating it. For example Blizzard not only uses the traditional methods to try to track and ban hackers they also launch salvos of lawyers at any 'company' that springs up that attempts to sell WoW hacking tools. The key word in all of that is 'resources', something that Brad's team of basement devs are clearly already lacking since they're still trying to scare up a mythical "Investor" to pay for their Community College Unity project.
Can I just get a MMO that I can play and enjoy? Is that seriously asking too much? I haven't enjoyed a MMO since Vanguard launched in 2007. That was nine fucking years ago!