Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Hosix

All labs matter!
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I don’t know if any of you played EQOA (PS2 version of EQ), but their version of the Enc class was far different from EQ1. We had buffs. We could Mez. We could charm. But mana regen was a much more active duty. We had to actively manage the mana of the group. It was possible to suck and the group be oom. When you had a good one in your group, you instantly knew it. It was like being a healer, but for mana. And since we didn’t have a mana bar, that made it interesting. I really enjoyed that class. Make utility classes interesting and you don’t necessarily have to create encounters around them.
They also had a buff for melee? That added a dmg proc. It was badass. But ya EQOA was fun with just a controller.
 

Flipmode

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They also had a buff for melee? That added a dmg proc. It was badass. But ya EQOA was fun with just a controller.
If the enchanter went Animator for their Master Class they got a rune proc for melees. And a sick ass pet! Grand Animation was a baller!
 

Khane

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..Is heirloom gear really ANY different than twinking the fuck out of an alt?

Aside from heirloom gear being extremely easy to obtain?
Yes heirlooms are way different, and it's not even close. Heirloom gear is like having blue quality items equipped for whatever level you are, that scale. They are nothing like the power level of a fungi tunic + t-staff at level 1 in EQ.
 

Daidraco

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Yes heirlooms are way different, and it's not even close. Heirloom gear is like having blue quality items equipped for whatever level you are, that scale. They are nothing like the power level of a fungi tunic + t-staff at level 1 in EQ.
Heirlooms are still worth it to have, but I used to love the hell out of them pre-nerf.
 

Khane

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Pre-nerf, post-nerf, doesn't really matter. They were never EQ levels of twink ownage. They're mostly useful for the experience bonus, which is certainly nice, but I wanna be the baddest level 10 around. Of course you also need a game world where that actually matters because stuff can kill you.
 

etchazz

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I'm with you on the twinking. I remember getting a Blade of Carnage for my warrior twink. Good times.
 

Arden

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You could argue that a lot of EQ's features came from the fact that the game wasn't over-engineered. So much of the game's flexibility came from the early devs not really knowing what to expect. They just threw a lot of features out there without really anticipating all the creative ways players would use them. It resulted in plenty of frustrating bullshit and imbalance, but it also produced a game that let players discover all kinds of 'secret' and inventive ways to beat a really challenging system.

That's when I had the most fun with EQ: beating a really hard game, not by doing things the way they were intended, but by finding creative ways around the most challenging aspects/content. When you got really good at EQ, it wasn't because you could do the same things everyone else was doing, just better or faster, it was because you knew things other people didn't know, or you could use features in ways no one else considered.

Perfectly engineered games are admirable, but they necessarily limit that kind of flexibility. When they are airtight, they don't allow too much wiggle room for creativity. You're generally going to play the game the way it was intended, because the devs have already anticipated most of the loopholes and sealed them shut. You may the the best guy at pressing 1,2,3,4 in the right order and at the right time, but you're still going to be pressing 1,2,3,4 along with everyone else.
 

kaid

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Yes heirlooms are way different, and it's not even close. Heirloom gear is like having blue quality items equipped for whatever level you are, that scale. They are nothing like the power level of a fungi tunic + t-staff at level 1 in EQ.
I think my jboots are slower since the last patch.
 

tyen

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Going through old content that used to be hard with OP armor is one of the best parts of MMO gameplay.

People create and twink lower lvl chars just to rape through previously hard content just for the satisfaction.

All mechanics going against that grain is retarded.

You cant SJW mmos. If you want everyone to experience stardom, then have constant fresh servers so maybe one of the rerolls, you can attach yourself to excellence
 

etchazz

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You could argue that a lot of EQ's features came from the fact that the game wasn't over-engineered. So much of the game's flexibility came from the early devs not really knowing what to expect. They just threw a lot of features out there without really anticipating all the creative ways players would use them. It resulted in plenty of frustrating bullshit and imbalance, but it also produced a game that let players discover all kinds of 'secret' and inventive ways to beat a really challenging system.

That's when I had the most fun with EQ: beating a really hard game, not by doing things the way they were intended, but by finding creative ways around the most challenging aspects/content. When you got really good at EQ, it wasn't because you could do the same things everyone else was doing, just better or faster, it was because you knew things other people didn't know, or you could use features in ways no one else considered.

Perfectly engineered games are admirable, but they necessarily limit that kind of flexibility. When they are airtight, they don't allow too much wiggle room for creativity. You're generally going to play the game the way it was intended, because the devs have already anticipated most of the loopholes and sealed them shut. You may the the best guy at pressing 1,2,3,4 in the right order and at the right time, but you're still going to be pressing 1,2,3,4 along with everyone else.
Unfortunately, that aspect of the MMO universe is probably done for good. Now, the second someone learns a tactic or a loophole in a game, or anything that's unintended, they immediately put it on YouTube for the world to see. Then, either everyone learns the strat the next day, or the devs discover the loophole and patch it out. Yeah, there were websites that posted info back in the early days of EQ, but they usually weren't step by step videos people could just watch. Not sure how to remedy this issue going forward.
 

Ravishing

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Unfortunately, that aspect of the MMO universe is probably done for good. Now, the second someone learns a tactic or a loophole in a game, or anything that's unintended, they immediately put it on YouTube for the world to see. Then, either everyone learns the strat the next day, or the devs discover the loophole and patch it out. Yeah, there were websites that posted info back in the early days of EQ, but they usually weren't step by step videos people could just watch. Not sure how to remedy this issue going forward.
The only strategy EQ had at the top end was aggro mechanics and heal/tank chains. 1-2 guys that knew aggro did the pulling, your other 40 buds sat in a corner. It really wasn't challenging tbh.

There were exploits you could find, sure, that stuff probably shouldn't stay in a game. I remember to do Rathe Council I'd skip all of PoEB by exploiting through the zone wall and floating down to Rathe area. Did the same shit in Vex Thal to get past most trash and just do bosses.

EQ isn't a challenging game mechanic-wise. It is very simplistic but if you never pulled a mob before the aggro mechanics are what make or break your raids in most cases. Otherwise it was just gearing up and timing out the AoEs and facing a boss 1 direction. If there are adds then you find a way to deal, CC them, Kite them, off tank, or kill them. There are only so many options.

I am slightly disappointed that most games have got rid of the pulling mechanics, forcing you to take on objectives as intended, but for the 40 dudes that normally sit in a corner, it's probably a net positive.
 

kaid

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  • kaid

    kaid

The only strategy EQ had at the top end was aggro mechanics and heal/tank chains. 1-2 guys that knew aggro did the pulling, your other 40 buds sat in a corner. It really wasn't challenging tbh.

There were exploits you could find, sure, that stuff probably shouldn't stay in a game. I remember to do Rathe Council I'd skip all of PoEB by exploiting through the zone wall and floating down to Rathe area. Did the same shit in Vex Thal to get past most trash and just do bosses.

EQ isn't a challenging game mechanic-wise. It is very simplistic but if you never pulled a mob before the aggro mechanics are what make or break your raids in most cases. Otherwise it was just gearing up and timing out the AoEs and facing a boss 1 direction. If there are adds then you find a way to deal, CC them, Kite them, off tank, or kill them. There are only so many options.

I am slightly disappointed that most games have got rid of the pulling mechanics, forcing you to take on objectives as intended, but for the 40 dudes that normally sit in a corner, it's probably a net positive.
The only strategy EQ had at the top end was aggro mechanics and heal/tank chains. 1-2 guys that knew aggro did the pulling, your other 40 buds sat in a corner. It really wasn't challenging tbh.

There were exploits you could find, sure, that stuff probably shouldn't stay in a game. I remember to do Rathe Council I'd skip all of PoEB by exploiting through the zone wall and floating down to Rathe area. Did the same shit in Vex Thal to get past most trash and just do bosses.

EQ isn't a challenging game mechanic-wise. It is very simplistic but if you never pulled a mob before the aggro mechanics are what make or break your raids in most cases. Otherwise it was just gearing up and timing out the AoEs and facing a boss 1 direction. If there are adds then you find a way to deal, CC them, Kite them, off tank, or kill them. There are only so many options.

I am slightly disappointed that most games have got rid of the pulling mechanics, forcing you to take on objectives as intended, but for the 40 dudes that normally sit in a corner, it's probably a net positive.

Hahah that was one thing that stopped me raiding in eq early on. A handful of pullers got to see the zone the rest of us sat like idiots in a corner waiting for the shit to arrive to nuke. And given my computer at the time I generally kept looking at the floor or wall while casting so my frame rate in raids did not cause my computer to spontaneously combust.
 

Nirgon

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I do see improvements tho.

We need a break from wow clones so bad. Like, anything that isn't overly "modern Disney" safe space mmo.

Need server personalities, people with bad reps, community boards/chaos etc.
 

Daidraco

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I do see improvements tho.

We need a break from wow clones so bad. Like, anything that isn't overly "modern Disney" safe space mmo.

Need server personalities, people with bad reps, community boards/chaos etc.
I find it interesting that this board will supply all of that on its own.
 

Dom

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  • Dom

    Dom

I rag on this shit a lot, but I've actually caught myself thinking "I'm looking forward to Pantheon" several times the past week due to some incidental exposure to early MMO nostalgia. I don't particularly think it will be a very good game, but even if it's mediocre, the older style game design will make up for it. I'm hankering for some janky difficult confusing and complex MMO gameplay, which simply isn't available anymore.

They don't have to be great. They just have to be OK.