Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Big Flex_sl said:

Just to move things along..

What do you guys think the Rogue subclasses will be?

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Whatever they come up with in their meeting tonight, and likely as a response to whatever whines they see on the Kickstarter comments. (e.g. "I want a warrior not a paladin.")

Making it up as they go.

PS: The writing style and grammar/mechanics of the combat update was hilarious. I've seen elementary students that could do better.

popsicledeath_sl said:

I didn't mind Vanguard's system where crits or blocks or whatever triggered a different, logical ability. Or one ability created a weakness on a mob another ability could exploit. But anything beyond that, which if I understand their truly shitty ability with the English language it sounds like what we'll have, just forces players into a new form of playing the UI, not the game.

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That's what it sounds like they're describing to me.

popsicledeath_sl said:

But you make a good point. In a game with fixed 'chains' you have to basically do what the game says, and in the right order. In EQ, if a mob got lose, the necro might think the best option is to fear the mob to keep the healer alive. Then the druid/ranger/wizard sees it running like crazy and is like oh shit need to snare that shit.

EQ let us play the game. Fixed chain/combo systems let the game play us.

I didn't mind Vanguard's system where crits or blocks or whatever triggered a different, logical ability. Or one ability created a weakness on a mob another ability could exploit. But anything beyond that, which if I understand their truly shitty ability with the English language it sounds like what we'll have, just forces players into a new form of playing the UI, not the game.

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And lets face it - EQ style is easier to code and playtest. I'd like to see this game get made and simpler means more likely to get made. I guess I can deal with the MTG card abilities but am already cool on the chains for all the reasons presented by you guys here.

tad10_sl said:

Assassin and Blademaster

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I do not see a Ranger as a class and I could have sworn Brad has spoke about them. Possibly the Rogue is broken into the Ranger (or would be the assassin) which uses Bow, Arrows, traps, and snares and then a more traditional rogue. Maybe Their/Burglar. Daggers, sneaking, pick-pocket, Backstab

Muligan_sl said:

I do not see a Ranger as a class and I could have sworn Brad has spoke about them. Possibly the Rogue is broken into the Ranger (or would be the assassin) which uses Bow, Arrows, traps, and snares and then a more traditional rogue. Maybe Their/Burglar. Daggers, sneaking, pick-pocket, Backstab

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It's a stretch goal, along with Druids, Bards, and Monks.

arallu_sl said:

It's a stretch goal, along with Druids, Bards, and Monks.

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You're right. I apologize.. Noticed it as soon as submitted.

Boozecube_sl said:

Careful there people might start to think you are a troll if you tongue isn't shoved up Brads ass.

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At least then it would be as brown as the rest of the shit that flows from his 'vision.'

Boozecube_sl said:

So thinking about how they backtracked and turned the current class lineup into subclasses with 2 different paths. If they somehow made the stretch goal of $1.75million not that there is a chance in hell. Wouldn't the classes already be bloated as fuck.

1. Cleric
2. Dark Knight
3. Crusader
4. Rogue
5. Enchanter
6. Wizard
7. Shaman
8. Druid
9. Ranger
10. Bard
11. Monk

Each with two paths we're already sitting at 22 different class options. I thought the goal was to tone shit down to the basics.

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Agreed. My biggest concern, now that I reacquainted myself with the list, is lack of tanks and healing. I guess its it no different than EQ though... Since these are stretch goals, can we count on them? Let's break it down.

Healers:
Cleric
Shaman
Druid

Tanks:
Dark Knight
Crusader
Monk

DPS:
Rogue
Wizard
Ranger

Utility:
Enchanter
Bard

Now, i'm assuming this list restructures once you bring the paths into play but at the ground level, that is where we stand i'm assuming.

Quineloe_sl said:

The heroic opportunity garbage, I'm not a fan of. It already sucked in EQ2 and it has no place in a game that supposedly has slow paced combat. If you want social aspects in groups, don't feed that reaction bullshit to us at every opportunity.

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Waaat? You don't want the game guiding/forcing you into using certain abilities at certain times so you can create what is called a heroic opportunity?! What would you rather have? Being a player who isn't terrible where you pay attention and use an ability as a reaction to your environment and situation that the game doesn't recognize with a cool font saying "HEROIC OPPORTUNITY SUCCESSFUL!!!" and instead you just did something good to save the group and people noticed it?

I personally love for everything HEROIC in a game to be based on the game mechanics telling the UI when I should do something! That's exactly why I love most modern MMO as opposed to the older ones where I had to actually pay attention to the game, world and situation, and rely on my actions to create a reputation for myself where thankfully nobody said 'EPIC' or 'HEROIC' like ever because you'd get your ass kicked for shit like that.

Boozecube_sl said:

So thinking about how they backtracked and turned the current class lineup into subclasses with 2 different paths. If they somehow made the stretch goal of $1.75million not that there is a chance in hell. Wouldn't the classes already be bloated as fuck.

1. Cleric
2. Dark Knight
3. Crusader
4. Rogue
5. Enchanter
6. Wizard
7. Shaman
8. Druid
9. Ranger
10. Bard
11. Monk

Each with two paths we're already sitting at 22 different class options. I thought the goal was to tone shit down to the basics.

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Not really, think of it this way (keep in mind I'm using arbitrary spells, and a level cap of 50 for easy math here)

-An Everquest Shadowknight has a max level of 50, he has access to Poison Bolt, Clinging Darkness, Fear, Cackling Bones, Life Tap and Shadow Vortex

-A Pantheon Void Master has a max level of 20, he has access to Poison Bolt, Life Tap, and Cackling Bones

-A Pantheon Dread Lord has a max level of 20, he has access to Cling Darkness, Fear, and Shadow Vortex

Its the same, and one can change between each specialization, but it just adds a little more diversity without actually adding more shit.

tad10_sl said:

Since we've gotten sidetracked back to your original post that's not what Smed said. AFAICT, Smed said VG was never profitable when it was his FTP that wasn't profitable (I think it might have been a "net loss" quote - same point applies).

Whatever, I won't choad up this thread with this discussion anymore - feel free to take the parting shot.

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Ah, apples and oranges. I think I read somewhere to this date Star Wars still hasn't turned a profit so that's more the business side. My point was more about the game itself and number of people playing it. Due to the release, bugs, performance, whatever, it never retained players. I've played a lot of Vanguard and I love the design. The game however ran like garbage and had tons of issues, and I keep my PCs cutting edge.

The problem wasn't sub or F2P, it was the game was never really finished and after the initial Titanic like churn of players, Smed never addressed it or invested anything much into it. I *think* his plan was always to get rid of it, but again that's just me hypothetically speaking. I really don't understand why they initially bought Vanguard since it was really in direct competition to EQ and EQ2. I really wish they had ported Vanguard's design and metadata into EQ2s engine. I'd pay a monthly sub for that game.

Originally Posted byColumn That was one of the few things that was acutely good about EQ, and proves you are just asking for another shitty MMO were everyone is the same.

Some classes should be better at small content, solo, or raid. Fuck every class being good at everything.
That is some stagnant ass shit.

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I disagree completely. I think every class should be distinct, but being unique doesn't mean sucking ass and being weak in other regards. That's just crappy design.

Flc_sl said:

At least then it would be as brown as the rest of the shit that flows from his 'vision.'

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You had a great start, but now you sound like a cliff notes version of ut. Same fucking tired arguments against Brad and everything Pantheon, but at least you keep it shorter. I should thank you for that.

Big Flex_sl said:

Just to move things along..

What do you guys think the Rogue subclasses will be?

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A DPS class that does increased damage the more you breathe out of your mouth...

and dual parry-dagger wielding tank that everyone will say sucks because only 10% of the population can wrap their heads around the concept, much less how to play the class, but that 10% will be awesome and have fun.

OR I WILL REMOVE MY PLEDGE!

Boozecube_sl said:

So thinking about how they backtracked and turned the current class lineup into subclasses with 2 different paths. If they somehow made the stretch goal of $1.75million not that there is a chance in hell. Wouldn't the classes already be bloated as fuck.

1. Cleric
2. Dark Knight
3. Crusader
4. Rogue
5. Enchanter
6. Wizard
7. Shaman
8. Druid
9. Ranger
10. Bard
11. Monk

Each with two paths we're already sitting at 22 different class options. I thought the goal was to tone shit down to the basics.

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1. They didn't backtrack on anything. Even in the text of the initial cleric reveal there was the implication that there would be 2 available paths.

2. Was a combat rogue in wow a different class than an assassination rogue? Or did they share mostly the same traits with a few differences that allowed them to specialize? Pantheon goes a step further and associates gear choice to specialization. Big deal.

3. Why are you still trolling this thread?

Muligan_sl said:

Agreed. My biggest concern, now that I reacquainted myself with the list, is lack of tanks and healing. I guess its it no different than EQ though... Since these are stretch goals, can we count on them? Let's break it down.

Healers:
Cleric
Shaman
Druid

Tanks:
Dark Knight
Crusader
Monk

DPS:
Rogue
Wizard
Ranger

Utility:
Enchanter
Bard

Now, i'm assuming this list restructures once you bring the paths into play but at the ground level, that is where we stand i'm assuming.

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Maybe Monk will be a DPS class and the Ranger be a Tank since the LotR movies made Rangers seem really cool. That's the only change I'd suspect.

Looks more like the bad EQ2 skill chain

Maybe they will let crusader and maybe wizard heal in some way too, I would worry more about utility being too required with potentially only one class that could do it. I would hope all the dps are hybridized in some way to allow for them to fill in as utility.