Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Troy_Costisick_sl · Jan 25, 2014

arallu_sl said:
True we need more info. I wonder if the subclasses will be more of 'this is how I geared my character' rather than 'I have to pick at level 10 which one to be'.

That's what Brad has said on other forums. It's mostly gear and rare scroll drops.

Quaid · Jan 25, 2014

popsicledeath_sl said:
In defense of nobody really... when hey put up the cleric summary, we were getting 'info' more on how different items and abilities you found in the game would maybe change your approach. So, you're a cleric and found some cool spells, now you put on a robe to enhance those spells, so the cleric descriptions sounded like it went along with the info they were making up at that time.

The info they're making up now seems to be with a more hard-coded class-specialization system, and they could be seen as backtracking to make the Cleric fit more into this hard-coded direction they're making up, instead of the previous direction of different items and spells just changing how you play the class.

I think it was always gonna be a hard coded choice... They just tried to convey it in a more 'interesting' way, through the lore, rather than straight up telling us. This was a huge miscalculation, because we all just took it as too little info that was too generalized to be of any real importance.

Forlaen_sl · Jan 25, 2014

Merlin_sl said:
Yea I remember running by and seeing clerics soloing giants in Velious (the weaker ones outside of Thurgadin), but the way that is written, it almost seems like they will be able to tank for the group and heal for the group. That iswayoffbalance.

Warhammer Warrior Priest

arallu · Jan 25, 2014

Quaid_sl said:
I think it was always gonna be a hard coded choice... They just tried to convey it in a more 'interesting' way, through the lore, rather than straight up telling us. This was a huge miscalculation, because we all just took it as too little info that was too generalized to be of any real importance.

Eh, maybe not. If your a base cleric and decide to gear up in plate then you take on 'tanky' aspects/abilities, whereas if you put on your robe you can heal better perhaps?

popsicledeath · Jan 25, 2014

arallu_sl said:
True we need more info. I wonder if the subclasses will be more of 'this is how I geared my character' rather than 'I have to pick at level 10 which one to be'.

So, you gear your Cleric with spells and a robe, and then one day you log in and you're no longer a Cleric, but a Curate? Surprise promotion!

Flc_sl · Jan 25, 2014

Convo_sl said:
You're reaching dude. Quiad is right. They hinted to the system in the first cleric write up. Brad hinted at it also. I don't think they made any of the class stuff up.

The Crusader class write-up and specializations feature language that is either an exact quote or paraphrase of many of the QQ comments in the Kickstarter about the lack of a warrior class. There were people bitching about how they didn't want to follow a god. What do we get? "Proficient in most melee weapons and can cast beneficial spells when following a god."

Which directly counteracts the class write up (that was obviously written before the specializations.)

"The Crusader is a powerful knight whose devotion to king or deity is so great that he has been blessed with divine powers. A paragon of virtue, the Crusader commands the battlefield and defends the weak. Brave and bold, the Crusader is always at the front of any fray, guarding his allies against harm with armor and faith."

The timing of the "you can be a warrior too" information coming right on the heels of all the QQ, the fact that the original "lore" update only makes mention of Crusaders as a holy, paladin-archetype, and the previous execution they've had all point to one thing:

Making it up as they go.

Vandyn · Jan 25, 2014

Troy_Costisick_sl said:
That's what Brad has said on other forums. It's mostly gear and rare scroll drops.

Basically sounds like FFXIV but perhaps more than just the weapon.

pharmakos · Jan 25, 2014

Troy_Costisick_sl said:
Those are called Bards.

arallu_sl said:
lol isnt that what everyone in EQN will be? BattleMage-Cleric-Chanter ftw!

bards were really OP though. my envisioned Warrior / Enchanter hybrid will have no snares, heals, or run-speed buffs.

Aeiouy_sl · Jan 25, 2014

Convo_sl said:
This thread is getting beyond ridiculous lol.. Why is it every time things start looking up, it's dragged back down with speculation and hypotheticals? Stay on topic people! Lol.. Anyway predictions on combat doc?

Mr Creed_sl said:
Why wouldnt it be? I mean sure with today's hardware it can be much higher, but if they recognize server population limits as tool and not a technical limitation they can set it however they want.

Watch your mouth, Wasteland the MMO (done well) would be awesome!

I have my suspicions world population caps will be lower than expected. Between contested content and the desire for alternate rule servers , and even a relatively small world map, I could see the max cap on servers being lower than we might be used to seeing.

Flc_sl · Jan 25, 2014

pharmakos_sl said:
bards were really OP though. my envisioned Warrior / Enchanter hybrid will have no snares, heals, or run-speed buffs.

On the plus side, if you get enough people to sign on to this idea and bitch about it in the kickstarter comments, it's guaranteed to make it in as one of the enchanter specializations. See to it!

popsicledeath · Jan 25, 2014

Troy_Costisick_sl said:
That's what Brad has said on other forums. It's mostly gear and rare scroll drops.

Is it? Because what they're saying now is that is sure sounds like it's more hard coded. How do you soft code a complete name-change for a class based on nothing more than how you're playing it?

I honestly believe they wanted it to be more wide open, where players could build their own decks, basically, and then realized it would be a balancing nightmare so backpedaled to where there is still some variation based on the abilities and gear you'll loot, but on a sub-class foundation that will be easier to balance. Otherwise, I'll just wear heavy armor and cast my dps spells and call myself a Battle-Curate.

Convo · Jan 25, 2014

Flc_sl said:
The Crusader class write-up and specializations feature language that is either an exact quote or paraphrase of many of the QQ comments in the Kickstarter about the lack of a warrior class. There were people bitching about how they didn't want to follow a god. What do we get? "Proficient in most melee weapons and can cast beneficial spells when following a god."

Which directly counteracts the class write up (that was obviously written before the specializations.)

"The Crusader is a powerful knight whose devotion to king or deity is so great that he has been blessed with divine powers. A paragon of virtue, the Crusader commands the battlefield and defends the weak. Brave and bold, the Crusader is always at the front of any fray, guarding his allies against harm with armor and faith."

The timing of the "you can be a warrior too" information coming right on the heels of all the QQ, the fact that the original "lore" update only makes mention of Crusaders as a holy, paladin-archetype, and the previous execution they've had all point to one thing:

Making it up as they go.

So from here on out, everything they come up with they are just making it up?? I disagree but if that's new sticking point, so be it..

Not that it really bothers me much as we had a certain company(SoE) take a very similar approach in regards to EQN..

popsicledeath · Jan 25, 2014

arallu_sl said:
Eh, maybe not. If your a base cleric and decide to gear up in plate then you take on 'tanky' aspects/abilities, whereas if you put on your robe you can heal better perhaps?

And at what point does the game refer to you as the TITLES the devs themselves have given to class sub-classes?

If you wear plate long enough, you acclimate to it with the vague climate system, and then you're a Battle Cleric?

They basically described a wide open, soft-coded system at first. Then described a more rigid, hard-coded system. And at some point it was bullshit or a lack of clear communication.

Convo · Jan 25, 2014

Flc_sl said:
On the plus side, if you get enough people to sign on to this idea and bitch about it in the kickstarter comments, it's guaranteed to make it in as one of the enchanter specializations. See to it!

People have bitched a ton about the stretch goals.. How is that working out? Still stretch goals right?

Aeiouy_sl · Jan 25, 2014

popsicledeath_sl said:
In defense of nobody really... when hey put up the cleric summary, we were getting 'info' more on how different items and abilities you found in the game would maybe change your approach. So, you're a cleric and found some cool spells, now you put on a robe to enhance those spells, so the cleric descriptions sounded like it went along with the info they were making up at that time.

The info they're making up now seems to be with a more hard-coded class-specialization system, and they could be seen as backtracking to make the Cleric fit more into this hard-coded direction they're making up, instead of the previous direction of different items and spells just changing how you play the class.

It could still be both. They talked about a 90/10 or 95/5 split but I always took that to mean outside your class (and sub class I guess). So you are a void knight but with gear you can dabble 5% into some rogue skills, not just th other dark knight tree.

Quaid · Jan 25, 2014

Also... I found that combat info they released today pretty lacking. I wanna hear about:

1. Auto attack: in or out? If it's out, what is in its place?
2. Active Blocking: in or out? If it's in, will you have to have a shield equipped (block tied to right mouse) or ability based?
3. Active dodge: will there be an active dodge for all classes? Or will certain classes have quick movement avoidance abilities?
4. Leashing: yes, no? What system will be in place?

arallu · Jan 25, 2014

popsicledeath_sl said:
And at what point does the game refer to you as the TITLES the devs themselves have given to class sub-classes?

If you wear plate long enough, you acclimate to it with the vague climate system, and then you're a Battle Cleric?

They basically described a wide open, soft-coded system at first. Then described a more rigid, hard-coded system. And at some point it was bullshit or a lack of clear communication.

AA's? Maybe they're writing those up now =P

popsicledeath · Jan 25, 2014

Convo_sl said:
People have bitched a ton about the stretch goals.. How is that working out? Still stretch goals right?

That they're constantly revamping based on little more than people whining, otherwise they would be sticking to their initial vision or had a better vision of them from the beginning is they had a more coherent, thought-out plan.

I'm still a supporter of the game. But a duck is a duck.

Convo · Jan 25, 2014

popsicledeath_sl said:
And at what point does the game refer to you as the TITLES the devs themselves have given to class sub-classes?

If you wear plate long enough, you acclimate to it with the vague climate system, and then you're a Battle Cleric?

They basically described a wide open, soft-coded system at first. Then described a more rigid, hard-coded system. And at some point it was bullshit or a lack of clear communication.

We all know it's communication.. that's been their biggest down fall from the beginning.. We all talked about how they treated the KS like it was a game already funded.. The shit they released early followed the typical path prior projects did. A little lore, a screen shot, brief class intro, etc.. They never went into this realizing how much detail was needed until we pointed it out.

Vandyn · Jan 25, 2014

I'm curious to know is with how these classes have sub classes, how is that going to work with a stretch goal. If bard stretch goal is met, then they need to come up with two sub classes?

Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

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