Honestly, i feel like it may be good not to be able to get to your friends right out the gate, make some new ones. Not sure how much the design would cost for dungeon finder, but to me, just to give it to players for the first few levels isn't worth it.
Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
- Thread starter gogojira_sl
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I think scaling mechanic if the perfect way to make a game. I loved the idea of this with death penalty when it was made on the EQN reddit:Why do we only need 1 type of death penalty : EQNext
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This is a debatable point though, not everyone is as much as a masochist as you are Dumar. I wish I could find the quote but Blizzard had numbers supporting that more than 70% of the players that played never made it past level 10. Those first few levels are where you needed the biggest help getting people hooked.
Dumar, you make it far easier for me to not keep up with this thread, because you keep fighting the arguments for me.
I wholeheartedly agree that the game should be challenging from day 1 hour 1 level 1. EASY GAMES ARE BORING.
I originally started up on Project 1999 just for the nostalgia, but I stayed because it was challenging right off the bat. I was pulling kobolds to the zone wall in the dark forest to avoid adds, to not get lost, and to not allow it to flee deeper into the zone-- AT LEVEL 1.
My recommendation is to display intelligent newbie tips on the screen if newbies keep dying to stupid shit like attacking level 2 fire beetles as a level 1. In the case of a level 1 dying to a level 2 beetle, display a tip that tells them how the con system works. A lot of casual players are turned off by a difficult game, which is why they are all made easy nowadays, but if they are shown the path to success instead of dumbing down the game, I think you'll hook them when they start to feel good about winning a hard game.
Good to hear you are leaning heavily towards going the no porting to dungeons bit. Still giving certain classes abilities to port to general areas of the world is a good thing for class want/interdependence , just never to the actual dungeons and still making you travel even from these areas.
Remember the entire idea of making the game is with the idea of a "niche" audience who prefers the world feeling and more old school ideas.
When you go down the road of convenience that eliminates taking part in the world be it travel or whatever ,it's going down the very road that ended up getting the safe and quick instanced/lobby games we have now.
There are plenty of those out there already.
(also I'm neutral on early level porting/travel assistance. While I'd just as soon not have it , if you made it a "this is to help you young adventurer , soon you will be left to your own devices" type thing I could deal with it.)
Remember the entire idea of making the game is with the idea of a "niche" audience who prefers the world feeling and more old school ideas.
When you go down the road of convenience that eliminates taking part in the world be it travel or whatever ,it's going down the very road that ended up getting the safe and quick instanced/lobby games we have now.
There are plenty of those out there already.
(also I'm neutral on early level porting/travel assistance. While I'd just as soon not have it , if you made it a "this is to help you young adventurer , soon you will be left to your own devices" type thing I could deal with it.)
Furious
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Only when a_skeleton_03 pledges his 10 grand again.
I'm interested to see if he re-pledges now that all of his complaints have been subsided. If I were a betting man I would place money on him just being a drama whore the whole time and never having any real intention to pledge that.
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Hes not gonna pledge shit. That was nothing but a troll pledge form the beginning.
Aside from my personal opinion on these mechanics, I think this may be a bad idea because people tend to get stupid when simple things are made more difficult when they were easier to begin with. Even with clear explanations that make a lot of sense. If you provide easy porting about and hand-holding grouping right off the bat and then take it away, even with a good lore reason; they're going to want it later. Just because.
Forum Poster1: "WHY CAN'T WE HAVE SUPERDUPER PORTING AND LFG-LIKE THING LIKE AT LEVEL 2 ALL THE TIME!?"
DickTrickle
Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
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Don't be silly. Two seconds after logging on, you should be killed by a guard and start with a -2 level penalty. That's how real men do it.
Unless you make the first dungeon it ports you to is in the middle of mid - high level zones, and when you finish you come out and have to find your way back to the city.
I'd be up for that
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You guys really don't want them to have any players beyond the 2000 or so who are backing the kickstarter do you?Unless you make the first dungeon it ports you to is in the middle of mid - high level zones, and when you finish you come out and have to find your way back to the city.
I'd be up for that
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What dungeon finders and insta ports? Fuck that. I thought it was the entire reason for this game being made.
Was a joke , but along those lines at some point you put in enough convenience factors then fuck it, it's not the old school niche game I want, and no point in backing or playing it. Might as well play a high budget current mmo then. So erring on the side of old school and pissing off those without the patience for forced travel is my overall preference for this game.
I've got EQL and EQN for Troll Ninja Paladin port to all over the world for the other extreme and will play it some too.
Most medium ground , "safe" games , are meh all around.
I've got EQL and EQN for Troll Ninja Paladin port to all over the world for the other extreme and will play it some too.
Most medium ground , "safe" games , are meh all around.
Grim1
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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You are fighting with competing Visions(TM).
IMHO.... ok, not so humble but whatever.... a LFG system should help you find a group but not help you get to the dungeon.
My personal experience as a Shadowknight (the coolest class ever fucking invented btw... with Monks / Enchanters fighting for sloppy seconds) in early EQ was the hassle of getting a group. Shadowknights had xp group penalties and the like, which made getting a group almost impossible for SK's back then.BUT I WAS FINE WITH THAT.
SK's were rare because they were a pain in the ass and the twitch crowd avoided them. But a good SK, because of his agro skills (if he knew how to use them) were highly valued. So it took a while to develop a decent reputation on the server as a good tank, but once you did the groups didn't care about the xp penalty because they knew the person behind the toon would more than make up for it.
That is what is missing in modern MMO's.WoW fucked us with pablum and easy to play everything. Now everyone copies them and anyone that is capable of skill does something else with their lives. Old EQ could have been better with a LFG system that made it easier to find groups, butthe instant travel system is bullshitand should be avoided at all costs.
If the dungeon is worth fighting in, then it is worth fighting to get to.
I dont know about this. This may sound like a good solution, but if you do this for lower levels, its going to confuse people. Plus people are going to be more likely to aggressively suggest that this needs to be added to the whole game and I have never seen an MMO hold out and not dumb down. I have seen the same thing happen with hearts in GW2. People were so used to hand holding hearts telling them where to go that when they started entering zones with almost none, they got bored and complained. I am fine with hand holding newbies, but hand hold by helping them understand the mechanics that are actually a core part of the game. If you want a LFG system, set it up so you can see who is flagged LFG or what party needs more (plus a chat channel for this) and make the player shoot off a tell....social interaction is the key. Also if your friends are somewhere else....they can make the run from Qeynos to freeport just like I did at level 2 with every Qeynos I character I ever made....its the adventure that matters
My first time playing Eq1 I made a Human ranger and logged into the zone in pitch black dark. I took a few steps, fell into the water and died. I then logged out and said screw this game lol....Shortly after my now wife got me to log back in and here friends took me on my first adventure from Qeynos to FP....I will never forget that and it was amazing....Thats the type of world that is needed.
Agree with this philosophy 100%. Some classes were not as wanted due to certain aspects, but if played right people would ditch the penalty for the reward in the end. I remember on live in the Velious era, not many people wanted pet classes in high risk environments with lots of mobs because the majority of mages/necros sucked with pet control. After grouping quite a bit, I always received tells from the same individuals doing their nightly runs because I played my class like a champion and never broke mezzes.
Most importantly, building a reputation is something that is lost in current games. I remember valuing my reputation just as much as my character's gear & level advancement.