Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Hateyou_sl said:

The problem is Brad fails to realize that people our age (30+ for the most part) that want to relive their "good ole EQ days" just can't anymore, and that kids that are now the age we were back then don't give a fuck about this type of game. There just isn't a market big enough for this. It was a right time right place situation.

If they are happy bringing in a small steady income by filling a niche market, then if they ever release, they'll probably be fine. The problem is Brad is probably incapable of feeling successful at that level, so he will somehow implode the game/company.

It'll be fun to watch, whichever way it ends up going.

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The vast majority of first gen players were normal people. Even in WoW, less than 10% of the playerbase completed all raid content. Its the popular and continual romanticizing of that small pocket of ex-hardcores and raiders that have altered the perception of what those games really stood for and offered the average player.

It was the perpetual challenge that everyone loved, regardless of the time they had to devote to it. Even players who did not and could not raid enjoyed their time. Most of the people I played with were already well into their 20s and 30s and played casually. Those of us who were younger and had more time were never representative of the general populous.

This game won't have a huge sub base after 3 months because Brad thinks he's smarter than he really is or even has to be, not because of anything to do with EQ. Nor anything to do with what we think are revolutionary ideas on game development, which I think is the main problem with the industry. Instead of just trying a game and seeing if you like it, we'd rather pontificate on design theory. Instead of just making games that devs find fun to play, they're trying to crack the holy grail of design theory.

The genre sucks because instead of just playing and/or making games the gamers and devs both think themselves so darned intelligent and important they can't stop theorizing and discussing them. It's becoming almost as insufferable as the twats in coffee shops who are quick to tell you they're fiction writers and the motivation and intellectual impetus behind the great works of fiction they never seem to actually start writing.

zzeris_sl said:

And most of those people moved on to WoW and other games and never came back. EQ wasn't designed for casuals. A niche game that is trying it's hardest to woo over old school EQ fans won't find a large audience. I don't know if Hateyou is right about Brad but I'm pretty sure this game won't have a huge sub base after 3 months. Hateyou's 10k to 100k is where I put it as well and I think that's pretty generous tbh.

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I'd give them 100-250k subscribers. The game shouldn't be trash, however, it won't be a huge hit either. Still, Brad has enough of a following, and that following could pay off with a decently subbed game provided he actually completes it and it doesn't resemble vanguard...

zzeris_sl said:

And most of those people moved on to WoW and other games and never came back. EQ wasn't designed for casuals. A niche game that is trying it's hardest to woo over old school EQ fans won't find a large audience. I don't know if Hateyou is right about Brad but I'm pretty sure this game won't have a huge sub base after 3 months. Hateyou's 10k to 100k is where I put it as well and I think that's pretty generous tbh.

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EQ wasn't designed formoderncasuals, but EQ hadplentyof casual players. Until SOE shifted the game to be raid focused, the average player was more than happy with grouping and the extensive progression even that offered.

I'm not for a second suggesting that such a game would pull huge numbers, but there are way more than 10k (rofl) that would be interested in it.

ZZ:

I somewhat disagree. However, following or not if the game is released in a playable state it would still net a decent amount of subs, IMO.

If this game releases, I'll play it. They've shown more than DBG ever showed with EQN and they have an entire studio and funding. I hope they pull this off because the MMO landscape is pretty fucking bleak, TBH.

Flipmode_sl said:

If this game releases, I'll play it. They've shown more than DBG ever showed with EQN and they have an entire studio and funding. I hope they pull this off because the MMO landscape is pretty fucking bleak, TBH.

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This.

Flipmode_sl said:

If this game releases, I'll play it. They've shown more than DBG ever showed with EQN and they have an entire studio and funding. I hope they pull this off because the MMO landscape is pretty fucking bleak, TBH.

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I completely agree. All of the theory craft in here is irrelevant to the fact that if this comes out, most of us will be there trying it.

Ill play it too. Ill play, IF, the combat is engaging. Big "If".

I'd also like the lore to be good without being too convoluted. Put the RP in RPG.

Dullahan_sl said:

EQ wasn't designed formoderncasuals, but EQ hadplentyof casual players. Until SOE shifted the game to be raid focused, the average player was more than happy with grouping and the extensive progression even that offered.

I'm not for a second suggesting that such a game would pull huge numbers, but there are way more than 10k (rofl) that would be interested in it.

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EQ was raid focused from Velious onward, so a year and 8 months into release? Granted, EQ had very little in the way of competition from other games so there wasn't really anywhere for "casual" players to congregate at the time pre-WoW. I think it will have a solid 100kish subs until the edges of content are discovered, and then (depending on how they set up their endgame and progression in general) you might see a winnowing down to 40-50k players or so if they are aiming strictly at the prog-server/P99 folks. If they modernize the systems a bit and don't have a "group or fuck off" complete mentality, they could probably do substantially better. But I know that the "core" audience that Brad was aiming at is definitely not on board with that idea.

Rezz_sl said:

EQ was raid focused from Velious onward, so a year and 8 months into release? Granted, EQ had very little in the way of competition from other games so there wasn't really anywhere for "casual" players to congregate at the time pre-WoW. I think it will have a solid 100kish subs until the edges of content are discovered, and then (depending on how they set up their endgame and progression in general) you might see a winnowing down to 40-50k players or so if they are aiming strictly at the prog-server/P99 folks. If they modernize the systems a bit and don't have a "group or fuck off" complete mentality, they could probably do substantially better. But I know that the "core" audience that Brad was aiming at is definitely not on board with that idea.

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Agree with everything you said aside from Velious making EQ raid focused.

Velious was a small part of EQ at that point, with everything outside of it remaining relevant (unlike modern expansions in games). I'm not sure saying the introduction of content that represented less than a quarter of the game changed the game making it "raid focused." They didn't even increase the level cap, and only a tiny fraction of the playerbase was even 60 at that point.

Velious did introduce a ton of new raid content, but still it was mostly mid to high level group content. Outside of ToV, Sleepers, PoG and the bosses of Skyshrine/KD, everything else was mostly group or casual raid content that anyone could take part in (SS/KD/WW).

Your Pantheon numbers look pretty realistic. I think they could be a bit higher permitted they level up their marketing and attract funding/investors to create more initial content and polish.

When is the launch party?

Furious_sl said:

When is the launch party?

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March 16, 1999

delirium_sl said:

Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen | Class Reveal - The Shaman | MMORPG

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Would be nice if shaman had the same play style as classic EQ. I hated how WoW gutted most of the unique play style of shaman and gave lots of it's tools to the warlock class. A shaman who does damage with DoTs, drains and converts HP into mana is more in line with original lore that I remember a shaman being before WoW.

rmack_sl said:

Would be nice if shaman had the same play style as classic EQ. I hated how WoW gutted most of the unique play style of shaman and gave lots of it's tools to the warlock class. A shaman who does damage with DoTs, drains and converts HP into mana is more in line with original lore that I remember a shaman being before WoW.

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From the brief descrip it sounds like a reskin of the EQ Shaman- which I imagine would make most people happy. Heals, stat buffs, chain and leather, spears and blunt weapons, slows... Pretty much an EQ shaman.

Vanguard's Shaman was a lot of fun. I don't think it needs to be specialized into three branches, though.