Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Foler

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gLobal said:
I know this thread is falling gifs, but I played during the stress test and enjoyed it. I had given up hope and stopped paying attention to it long ago. Seeing the email invitation caught me totally off guard.

Quick things I noticed:
  • Loading/zoning was so much faster than I anticipated. I put the patcher on my mechanical (storage) hard drive, and it downloaded files to the same location. Instead of moving the files, I decided to see how it ran. Very good honestly!
  • There was no rubber banding, lagging, etc. Seemed solid, but I believe there was only 40-50 ish people on my server.
  • Itemization seemed like they were moving in the right direction. Mobs would often have 2-3 items each, and several of them were tradeskill, quest, etc. My inventory filled up too fast with only 1 bag. I hope this is something they improve on. I started gathering leather and jute to make a bag, but I never managed to get it done. See next point.
  • Tradeskill system seemed like it had some serious work behind it. There's tradeskill items everywhere.
  • Magic system seemed pretty on par with what I'd expect from a spiritual successor to EQ. Cast times, duration, etc.
  • There was persistence between logging out (I know this was a question earlier)
  • There was a 'smart target' bound to Tab that worked pretty well! It seemed like it would prioritize mobs in your quest log, or field of view, etc. A small touch, but well received.
  • The lighting system was pretty good. Still has room to grow, but it was immersive where it was dark.
  • The graphics were not bad at all. A little cartoony, wow-ish - but I'll take it as long as it runs fluid.
  • No tutorial or help of any sort. To be expected during an early preview, but something basic would be nice. Just 'hey, here's how your class works'.
  • Options menu was very limited. I would have loved to mess with graphics settings a bit because I play across 3x4k monitors and getting framerate and fidelity just right is a balance at high resolutions. Honestly, I'm just happy it supported 11520 x 2160 & 5760 x 1080.
  • Needs UI scaling ASAP, and the ability to move around ALL UI elements. I was able to move everything but the menu button and buffs.
  • The zone seemed quite large. There was also no map. I'm ok with both of these.
  • Character customization seemed like it had some depth. I didn't get to level up much, but there was a 'mastery' type system for individual abilities. It also seemed like classes had 2 primary paths, but I was able to cast spells from both. I'll have to research this a bit more.
  • Climbing was dumb, clunky, and is probably wasted development. I hope I'm wrong about this in the future.
  • Mobs were pretty tough and some were fast as hell. Got my ass handed to me a lot, even while trying to sprint away. Thumbs up.
Overall, I have played some shitty MMO's in my time, and I'm happy to report Pantheon seemed reasonably fun, ran fluid, and was interesting during my brief day with it. I'm "only" in the supporter tier, but I'll be following it more closely now.
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This sounds exactly like what an eq successor would be. Amazing. Absolutely stoked. Thanks for the report
 
Khane

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Yea! You remember that website, that had maps, that everyone used because they actually wanted to know how the fuck to get where they were going? Well thats proof that everyone loves not knowing where the fuck they're going!!!
 
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Daidraco

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Chris said:
Game has to not only not have a minimap, but be designed to not need a minimap for players to not mod one in.

Like Elden Ring has massive fucking points of interest everywhere to help orient you.

Quests need to not require you to be pixel perfect to find something, like maybe there are multiple places to find quest items and they stand out from the landscape clearly.
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I started to go down that road with an example of EverQuest. If you look back at the very early experience, classic, and the first handful handful of expansions - you can lose orientation quickly. The walls look the same, the hallways look the same, the architecture looks the same, hell.. at times you could hit the zone wall and not know if you're before the zone line or after the zone line. But then, in the later expansion - the design of everything is so different, often in just terms of layout, that you can distinguish where you.

The only reason I didnt go down that line is because, looking from the clips that have been shown, I dont have any faith in the Pantheon team whatsoever to develop an intuitive zone with unique features everywhere.

Foler said:
Spoiled children. Spoiled by wow and shit. You forget eqatlas? Half the fun is in the unknown.
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I guess.. its fun to some? It makes you learn the zone like the back of your hand, sure. But I just dont see the value in making a fresh player wander around a player city for an hour. Its not that I dont have time to do it anymore, I just dont want to do it anymore. Chris mentioned Elden Ring, and its true.. your game world better be fucking memorable af if you want to go the route of not having a map and still keep someones attention these days. Acting like 1. Pantheon would actually come out, and 2. If I did come out, that Im going to waste my time trying to learn a zone that'll only be useful for me for an hour or two tops. No thanks.
 
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Khane

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It doesn't fucking matter if there is no map. Someone will create an overlay that has a goddamn semi transparent map on it. And literally everyone will use it, even Nirgon.

This argument is literally as dumb as saying we should delete cars and bicycles and skateboards from the world because it's so much more exciting and meaningful to just fucking walk everywhere.
 
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Foler

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Pantheon needs to find a way to prevent pixel readers and map overlays in order to sell this as a unique experience. Why conform to every other mmo, that mind you is currently failing?
 
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Khane

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There's actually a really good article from a well known gaming journalist and a veteran MMO player discussing Pantheon recently. It really does paint a picture of why Pantheon and Pantheon enthusiasts are so much ahead of the curve when it comes to engaging game design. Here is the excerpt:

Reporter: Hey, thanks for taking the time to speak with us about Pantheon today RetroTitties69MapsSuck
RetroTitties69MapsSuck: Glad to be here spreading the word about my favorite fantasy online game where you can be anything you want and do anything you want and even kill dragons!
Reporter: Wow, that sounds exciting, so what would you say was the most interesting aspect of this particular game, there are a lot of games out there like it, but what is it about this game?
RetroTitties69MapsSuck: Honestly, there are no maps. Maps are for noobs. Nobody actually likes maps, everyone has been brainwashed by big gaming
Reporter: Interesting, really now? Maps. Not what I expected. But you mentioned you can be and do anything, so why not have maps?
RetroTitties69MapsSuck: Because I said so, you stuck up bitch.
Reporter: Apologies. I had a chance to explore some of the game world with you and your guild. It was quite an eye opening experience. You took me to the Frost Dragon's Lair is that right?
RetroTitties69MapsSuck: Yes, the hardest content in the game. It's really fun because it's so hard and you have to know where you're going through trial and error because there are no maps. Not everyone can get there ya know?
Reporter: Impressive. You weren't able to defeat the Frost Dragon, it seemed you were all very well prepared but it was just too hard. Are there many foes in the game that difficult to beat? Is that part of your aspiration?
RetroTitties69MapsSuck: Yes exactly. It's very meaningful to have a foe worth striving towards. Preparation is everything, and working towards a common goal and coordinating everyone to that end is very satisfying.
Reporter: I see, so how do you coordinate with all the other players in your guild. That must be quite a task making sure everyone knows their role and responsibility?
RetroTitties69MapsSuck: No, not really, we use Discord
Reporter: Discord what's that?
RetroTitties69MapsSuck: Oh it's a voice chat program. You can get tons of people into a single chat to communicate effectively, it's very useful.
Reporter: Oh, so it's not part of the game? Intriguing, so coordination via 3rd party, real world communication tools is fine but in game maps piss you off?
RetroTitties69MapsSuck: Holy shit you're a cunt.
Reporter: Sorry, I didn't mean to upset you. Moving on to the next topic. I noticed that all of you in this so called raid died quite a bit?
RetroTitties69MapsSuck: Yes, obviously, that's part of the learning process. These fights are difficult and they should never be a walk in the park. It's part of what makes the experience fun.
Reporter: I see. So this Frost Dragon is incredibly powerful then?
RetroTitties69MapsSuck: Yes, it can teleport you to it, cleave you to death in 1 attack, fly into the sky and blanket the entire area and chill you to the bone, making you move and act more slowly.
Reporter: Wow, sounds difficult. And its lair is its domain that is has complete control over?
RetroTitties69MapsSuck: Yes exactly, it's a veritable fortress designed to its own advantage. It sees and knows all inside its lair.
Reporter: Tough opponent for sure. But it doesn't seem dying inside the lair is much of a burden?
RetroTitties69MapsSuck: Well thats because we completed a long quest line for our resurrecters that greatly reduces the experience penalty.
Reporter: I see, so you can resurrect everyone inside the dragon's lair that it has complete control over without incurring too much loss?
RetroTitties69MapsSuck: Yes, precisely.
Reporter: So why does the dragon allow that? Surely it can see you since you can see it? Is it because the Dragon doesn't have a map?
RetroTitties69MapsSuck: Holy fuck, how fucking stupid are you?
Reporter: Apologies again. I am new to all this. Let me change the topic. So after you resurrect I noticed that there are great banquet tables and some of the characters are singing songs?
RetroTitties69MapsSuck: Yes, those are food and bard buffs, the bard buffs are especially potent. They sing great hymns of past glory to stoke the fire of battle within us
Reporter: I see. And the dragon doesn't hear or smell this and attack?
RetroTitties69MapsSuck: FUCKING FUCK, WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU?
Reporter: Sorry, sorry. Again, sorry. Moving on. I noticed that the dragon never moves until you get within a certain distance. What's the meaning behind that?
RetroTitties69MapsSuck: Well that's its pull radius, it allows raid groups to maneuver to where they need to be depending on role before engaging in the fight
Reporter: Ahh, so a design intended to allow a raid group to effectively coordinate to take down a difficult enemy first without having to worry about unforseen pre-battle chaos?
RetroTitties69MapsSuck: Precisely
Reporter: So why no maps?
RetroTitties69MapsSuck: FUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
Click to expand...
 
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Nirgon

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Khane said:
It doesn't fucking matter if there is no map. Someone will create an overlay that has a goddamn semi transparent map on it. And literally everyone will use it, even Nirgon.

This argument is literally as dumb as saying we should delete cars and bicycles and skateboards from the world because it's so much more exciting and meaningful to just fucking walk everywhere.
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nope, wont use it and I hope they ban ppl

Make the game force full screen and on top if you must
 
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Rael

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lol I've never heard of these "pixel reader overlay" map hacks before, I have to wonder what percentage of the New World playerbase actually uses them. I can't imagine a significant enough portion of oldschool EQ/P99 hardered Pantheon players will bother with that kind of thing for it to be a problem.
 
Daidraco

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Nirgon said:
nope, wont use it and I hope they ban ppl

Make the game force full screen and on top if you must
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Simple stuff like that would just harm the uneducated masses, see below for example:
Rael said:
lol I've never heard of these "pixel reader overlay" map hacks before, I have to wonder what percentage of the New World playerbase actually uses them. I can't imagine a significant enough portion of oldschool EQ/P99 hardered Pantheon players will bother with that kind of thing for it to be a problem.
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It went through an up and down and then back up again, in popularity. The original was released and it had all the mining nodes, chests, etc. marked. Got insanely popular and then Amazon took notice because of people complaining that they didnt want to use overwolf (I dont blame them.) Since it was such a large part of the playerbase using it, saying it was illegal to use the overlay would just ban a huge portion of their playerbase, so they couldnt be retroactive about it. So they changed the rules by asking the host, Overwolf in this case, to make it so that the mod is only "supposed" to work on a separate screen and not cover up any part of the game. Thats fine for most people that have two screens, as thats what they were already doing as an option anyways. Then there was a small group of people that modified the INI of the overlay, and forced it to go back to the minimap form. Amazon isnt some Project 1999 shit where Secrets is invading your computer to search for shit - so there is literally nothing that they can do about it.

But... thats also pointing out the part where the "uneducated masses" mentioned above, would be at a disadvantage to everyone that is using the shit. Just like Show EQ. Everyone thats using it has a massive advantage in EverQuest, over the people that would rather be a purist about it. So many people are using it that banning it, and banning the people using it, would be stupid. Imagine trying to get your Pegasus Cloak as a "purist" and you know there are people in the zone competing for the spawn that are pretty obvious theyre using SEQ.
 
Rael

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Foler said:
Spoiled children. Spoiled by wow and shit. You forget eqatlas? Half the fun is in the unknown.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I swear studying those handdrawn maps out of game and planning where to go was half the fun of EQ back then.
 
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ToeMissile

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Rael said:
Yeah, I swear studying those handdrawn maps out of game and planning where to go was half the fun of EQ back then.
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Yes, back in the day. Most of us are grownups now and don’t have time for that shit.
 
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RobXIII

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ToeMissile said:
Yes, back in the day. Most of us are grownups now and don’t have time for that shit.
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They say that time goes faster as we get older, but it also feels like I have 1/10th the free time I had back in 1999.
 
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Shmoopy

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Rael said:
lol I've never heard of these "pixel reader overlay" map hacks before, I have to wonder what percentage of the New World playerbase actually uses them. I can't imagine a significant enough portion of oldschool EQ/P99 hardered Pantheon players will bother with that kind of thing for it to be a problem.
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Blizzard, Valve, and EA can't even 100% stop hackers with infinite budget and an army of devs.

Any indie-MMOG is gonna be hack-ridden day 1. o_O
 
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