Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Daidraco

Daidraco

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So.. here is one of the disadvantages to launching so publicly into "Early Access" on Steam. Theyre wiping all characters. The last pocket of people that are still playing, I cant imagine the majority of them will stick around after this.
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Animosity

Animosity

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Daidraco said:
So.. here is one of the disadvantages to launching so publicly into "Early Access" on Steam. Theyre wiping all characters. The last pocket of people that are still playing, I cant imagine the majority of them will stick around after this.
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They said multiple times before the launch there would be wipes. Dont know why anyone is surprised by it happening.
 
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Folanlron

Folanlron

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Sloan said:
My personal opinion is that they fundamentally do not have devs employed who are able to make the game. There is no way to explain why easy to fix problems with mechanics, class functioning, and other misc. bugs simply have not been fixed in over a year. The only explanation I can think of is that they contract out the vast majority of development, and the contractors are not just standing by to fix things.

When i bug report something in MnM, the typical response goes something like this: Within hours a dev will be like 'oh thanks, ive identified the problem as being x y z - this is why it was happening and Ive isolated and fixed it". Within hours. Because the people on the team know how to develop the game they are making, are passionate about what they are building, and actively try to make it better. Even AoC - a much larger endeavor with hundreds of staff who are more inclined to just ignore people because they get spammed so much / are indifferent because they are on a payroll - when I find bugs after patches and report them, the fucking dev team responds and fixes them on the spot.

VR just dont have the people needed to make this game. Maybe I will be wrong, just the vibes I get.
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I think the only dev "team" I guess you could call it, already had walked out shortly after Early-Access.

So for the past year, they have been trying to figure out "HTF do you, Unity."

The fact that that developer map, over 80% of the items on list are all items that you are constantly working on all the way thru Alpha -> Release, and a lot of the stuff you are constantly working on even years after release.
 
Daidraco

Daidraco

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Animosity said:
They said multiple times before the launch there would be wipes. Dont know why anyone is surprised by it happening.
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Surprised? No. I think they were talking about a character wipe all the way back at Steam Launch. I just think its ass backwards to release on Steam first. Then do a character wipe a year later. If I was a studio head, I wouldnt have released on Steam until I felt like my game was in a state that there wouldnt be in any danger of needing a full wipe.

New World, after they finally fixed all of those Dupes - that game desperately needed a character wipe after the fact. Any semblance of economy was ruined from that point. But even they didnt do a character wipe.

I personally dont care that Pantheon characters are getting wiped and Im not defending or attacking Joppa and his crew for doing so. I just think its a poor choice.
 
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jayrebb

jayrebb

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My char is maxed out and the wipe doesn't bother me. I'd rather have population.

If the Mastery system and more mob density and loot is added at the same time, I have no issue with resetting the game. Just fix the fucking base game. It better not be a wipe just for Mastery as the carrot. I need 5-10 big full zones and serious increases in spawn timers and density across the entire game world.
 
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Flobee

Flobee

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So on the topic of content, zones, etc... what in your mind makes a good zone, or good content in a game like this?

Mob density? Ease of access? Stuff to chase (quests, drops, w/e)? Zone layout? Art? Xp speed?

Why does Innothule swamp kind of suck, but Qeynos Hills is awesome? I understand that it's multiple things but just curious about opinions... What makes a good zone vs a bad zone?

If a zone is just kind of thrown together and generic, but has good rewards we'll use it but won't like it. If a zone is great to look at, but lacks rewards we skip it. I assume it's just a Goldilocks zone of all of these things.
 
DickTrickle

DickTrickle

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Daidraco said:
Surprised? No. I think they were talking about a character wipe all the way back at Steam Launch. I just think its ass backwards to release on Steam first. Then do a character wipe a year later. If I was a studio head, I wouldnt have released on Steam until I felt like my game was in a state that there wouldnt be in any danger of needing a full wipe.

New World, after they finally fixed all of those Dupes - that game desperately needed a character wipe after the fact. Any semblance of economy was ruined from that point. But even they didnt do a character wipe.

I personally dont care that Pantheon characters are getting wiped and Im not defending or attacking Joppa and his crew for doing so. I just think its a poor choice.
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They probably needed the money. Negron likes to talk about how they're fully funded and they've said they're fully funded at least twice now but there's never any amount or date or real timeline for what that means outside of the vaguest sense.

Instead of a wipe they should just lock out the characters for a certain amount of time. You get a fresh player base and economy but you'll eventually be able to go back to your guys, even if it's a long lock out period. Plus, you're probably more likely to try out different classes that way. Of course, if they ever get to a real release, it should all be wiped, but I doubt they'll ever progress beyond this early access label and what it entails
 
Hadden

Hadden

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Flobee said:
So on the topic of content, zones, etc... what in your mind makes a good zone, or good content in a game like this?

Mob density? Ease of access? Stuff to chase (quests, drops, w/e)? Zone layout? Art? Xp speed?

Why does Innothule swamp kind of suck, but Qeynos Hills is awesome? I understand that it's multiple things but just curious about opinions... What makes a good zone vs a bad zone?

If a zone is just kind of thrown together and generic, but has good rewards we'll use it but won't like it. If a zone is great to look at, but lacks rewards we skip it. I assume it's just a Goldilocks zone of all of these things.
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This is an interesting topic - Qeynos Hills definitely feels like one of the best early EQ zones to me and I think it's because it's a crossroads zone where a lot of people travel through or XP in out of Surefall, Qeynos, and Halas (and people venturing into Blackburrow and out to the Karanas). Innothule has the occasional higher levels traveling to Guk but for the most part it's kind of annoying to travel through with all the swimming required, where QH has some interesting hilly terrain that can be shortcutted if you know how the zone is laid out.

(on top of that, you have Pyzjn, Hadden, a cottage with nice music, skeleton ruins, entrance to BB, and a little pond with a useable canoe in it~)
 
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Brodhi

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So Pantheon devs big push now is to promote solo content, and telling people Pantheon was never supposed to focus on group content. Really? They think this is what is going to save it for them? Making majority of overland content soloable and only making grouping a slight benefit, not mandatory. They realize the only people who might play this game are die hard EQ players right. Who the fuck do they think they are attracting with shifting focus to cater to more solo players.
 
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Muligan

Muligan

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Punko

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I played a necro in original EQ and soloed my way to 49 before the planes released.

Original EQ did support solo play depending on class.
 
Punko

Punko

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Sloan said:
Depending on class doing alot of work here
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Druid, wizard, enchanter, and shaman could solo to 50 easily. Paladin and SK could, even monks could with the shit gear available at the time.

Given that the average EQ player at the time was terrible, it was far safer for a skilled player to solo level than to engage in pickup groups.

Duo is better for all of them, but again, finding a duo partner that had half a clue, was not as easy as people like to think these days.

I played at a cybercafe so I saw a lot of people trying to grind in groups. The warriors had the worst time, but a cleric I knew (bad player) never made it past level 37 in Sol B, deleveled to 35 and quit the game after a week of play trying to get back to 37. Noone played a rogue because they died all the fucking time.
 
Kuro

Kuro

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I remember being excited after raid because as long as I still had my full raid buffs I could go solo a single light blue mob as a Rogue
 
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S

Sloan

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Punko said:
Druid, wizard, enchanter, and shaman could solo to 50 easily. Paladin and SK could, even monks could with the shit gear available at the time.

Given that the average EQ player at the time was terrible, it was far safer for a skilled player to solo level than to engage in pickup groups.

Duo is better for all of them, but again, finding a duo partner that had half a clue, was not as easy as people like to think these days.

I played at a cybercafe so I saw a lot of people trying to grind in groups. The warriors had the worst time, but a cleric I knew (bad player) never made it past level 37 in Sol B, deleveled to 35 and quit the game after a week of play trying to get back to 37. Noone played a rogue because they died all the fucking time.
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I was a paladin. When I soloed, I rooted low con blue mobs and DW helm healed myself. It took approximately a week to get a yellow bar. Just because something is possible does not mean it is viable. Necro, shaman, druid, wizard yes.

Duoing however was very efficient for sure. Would agro kite paladin / wiz with a friend.
 
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Del

Del

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It'll probably make their remaining 500-1k concurrent users happy, but this makes me not want to return.
 
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jayrebb

jayrebb

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I solo'd half my way to cap. I never felt like there was a forced group dynamic for my class, similar to EQ.

Just buffing all classes solo rates across the board (instead of nerfing and punishing classes who had strong solo mechanics like they did to high level Dire Lord and Paladin) and adding more regular mob density would have addressed this. Dire Lord and Paladin a few months after launch became solo powerhouses. This was taken out of the game via nerfs after people called it "unfair tanks can solo" in Discord. There was this huge backlash to how well DL and Paladin were solo clearing, and VR agreed it was not part of the vision.

So this knee-jerk "Get rid of group elite mob content" seems very schizophrenic, when compared to the design direction taken the last 6 months with regard to class tuning.

The players were only really asking for density changes, and more areas/zones with buffed solo rates for classes that weren't good at soloing. Everyone considered the Dire Lord and Paladin neutering the wrong direction.

"We'll just get rid of group content" ain't it.
 
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Flobee

Flobee

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My 2c, chevron or really just elite mobs is a lame system and I'm happy they got rid of it. Going all soloable content is almost certainly a result of their population numbers rather than preference. I would assume they know that's not what EQ style players actually want... Then again...

I have 0 regrets buying the game, got I think like 50-60 hours out of it, maybe more. I'd be surprised they recover from here unless they just start churning out content and get their direction decided instead of changing directions every year or two.
 
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