Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Mughal

Mughal

Bronze Knight of the Realm
279
39
Draegan_sl said:
Kickstarter games are about innovation.
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Kickstarter is about pre-sales. There is a correlation with the level of completeness and the success of the campaign. There are a few outliers, but still it's not about resources to make the game as usually is to show customer demand. And in the case of MMO is never enough to make a game, not even a polished prototype, but maybe enough to go to someone with bigger pockets that can fund the next stage (Pathfinder is stuck there, last year they had not been able to find any additional money).

You can look at the data from ICO partners (they were given access to raw KS data and they datamined it). You can also look at Double Fine, which had nothing more than a basic pitch and got 3 million. But then again look at the team sizehttp://img.stpcdn.net/screenshots/double-fine-team.jpeg3 million for them are not enough to keep the light on for few months so certainly they did not need that money to make the game. Again it's just presale (IMO etc etc).

Not saying it's a bad thing that indies have a solution to presell the game, I am just saying that the utopian view that KS would be used to make things that otherwise would not be made or that is about innovation is just PR.

(had to edit a few times)
 
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Mahulk_sl

shitlord
37
0
arallu_sl said:
That's one thing I miss from MMORPG's, the ability to take one look at someone and go "omg that gear" and on the flipside go "wow you've been out of the game a while", both of which happened to me on different occasions. With dye's, appearance slots, etc. you dont get to see a visual representation of where that guy/gal has been and what they've accomplished. Only rarely in VG did I ask someone about gear, and that was usually only due to a flashy weapon. In EQ you could tell those SSoY's and Rubicite armor from half a courtyard away, or when I came back after a hiatus, some guy looking at me in Ivy etched gear and going "your rocking some old school stuff".
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MMOs are immersive games and every decision to break away from that immersive feeling, even for good quality of life reasons, ended up worsening the game for me. In EQ we saw a lot of that with: moving from real-life-like open markets in EC to level one naked AFK toons in Bazaar, user based fast travel via druids/wizards portal spells to PoK stones, etc. Nowadays many MMOs integrated so many quality of life features that the game is just a lobby where you insta travel from instances to instances meeting people you will never see ever again. It's a really big break from the roots of the genre, in MUDs communities were so strong everyone knew everyone and what they had done...
 
Muligan

Muligan

Trakanon Raider
3,254
916
I think we had some decent discussion about instance vs. non-instance. I noticed people spoke in regards to raid caps. Armor, UI, and a couple of other items popped up as well. There has been a lot of talk in regards to classes which also stemmed into travel. AA's /levels were discussed recently. Off the top of my head, I thought all of these were great discussion points.
 
Bruman

Bruman

Golden Squire
1,154
0
Muligan_sl said:
Just a question to admin/mods... would it be worthwhile to possibly have some of the more prevalent or repeated points listed in the initial post? I'm not saying Brad's going to take anything we say into any major consideration but if agreeable points are made would be nice to see them in one place for Brad or whoever to see the pulse of the community. I've seen several points that many of us agree.
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I think it'd be worthwhile to put what little information that is out there in the first post - basically quotes from Brad from here and twitter. This thread moves stupidly fast for a game that doesn't even have a KS going.
 
Muligan

Muligan

Trakanon Raider
3,254
916
Merlin_sl said:
No ones recently discussed the "big two". Death penalty and leveling curve.
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Definitely the big two. I would be really curious to see Brad's ideas as I feel the best approach to ether of these have been discovered. However, I do hate durability loss as a death penalty. Me dying has little to do with my armor getting messed up and then causing me to drop an insignificant amount of coin to repair it. Durability should be ongoing if it is going to be in the game. I may die from the beat downs that cause my armor to break but it wasn't me dying that breaks the armor. It is such an inconvenience more than a penalty in regards to the coin as well. Its like fining Lebron $10,000 to make a statement.
 
Mr Creed

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
2,395
289
Laura_sl said:
Question:
About the subtitle "Rise of the Fallen"... Are they rising now because they've just fallen? Sounds like a 5 seconds YouTube video
tongue.png
(just kidding...)
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I dont like the subtitle at all, but what can you do. Pantheon has a decent ring to it but then comes the cringy addition


Jysin_sl said:
^^ Kinda touched on an important aspect ^^

FUCK armor dyes!! I absolutely loathed their implementation. I loved when you could just look at a character (without inspecting) and know how geared they were. Here's two warriors LFG? One is in a spattering of orange and the other is in full yellowish brown? I will take the PoHate geared warrior over mr bronze armor. Nevermind that fact you also ended up with hot pink / rainbow colored idiots running around.
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It was kinda lame in EQ because there was only one armor skin before velious and not much after, but that shouldnt be an issue now. In a game that actually textures the armors you can tell sets gained from different sources apart that way, while still allowing them to be dyed.
 
Jimbolini

Jimbolini

Semi-pro Monopoly player
2,618
995
Assuming the subtitle will drop off later after launch?

(Very much like Vanguard: Saga of Heroes became just Vanguard)
 
C

Creslin

Trakanon Raider
2,508
1,153
durability penalties are what the devs make them. Saying its not a penalty because wow decided that they would just inflate gold until no one cared is dumb. In wow classic before that shit happened dieing as a raider sucked probably more than dieing as a raider in EQ did in many situations. I remember doing MC and having to call raids because died too often and people had no durability left or way to get back to the raid after repairing outside.

Death penalty is also something that needs to be tuned with the likelyhood of death in mind. In WoW style games a small error or split second slow reaction cause death, in EQ you generally had to make a larger error before it resulted in death, smaller errors usually just resulted in more downtime because someone had to heal you more or use inefficient spells to end the fight quickly.
 
Quineloe

Quineloe

Ahn'Qiraj Raider
6,978
4,464
Let's be honest here, for the most part EQ didn't really have a big exp penalty, because we always got someone to rez for 90% or 96% in the late game when exp death would have hurt. Death in EQ only hurt in the 20s to 40s before you had access to that rez. That was also the point where many players stopped progressing.

So basically EQ didn't really have any exp penalty on raids except time loss. At level cap, exp loss on death also becomes fairly irrelevant, even if you can de-level.

So what kind of death penalty would even work, for the sake of an actual penalty?
 
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gogojira_sl

shitlord
2,202
3
Copernicus would have still been a poorly blown budget and a canceled project if the handout they already received tells us anything.
 
Tauro

Tauro

Bronze Knight of the Realm
371
26
Mr Creed_sl said:
I dont like the subtitle at all, but what can you do. Pantheon has a decent ring to it but then comes the cringy addition
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Aside from mechanics, i wonder what the setting will be. From the posted concept art it look really dark&brooding to me. Also will we have to fight for/against a lot of gods (a whole Pantheon)? Help the fallen gods rising again while defeating the current gods?
 
shabushabu

shabushabu

Molten Core Raider
1,411
188
Merlin_sl said:
No ones recently discussed the "big two". Death penalty and leveling curve.
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Leveling should be as SLOW as possible... I do not want to hit cap in a month..but there has to be content to support it. While I prefer death penalties with oomph, I can go either way on that... as long as the encounters are challenging and have some complexity i don't care if there is a death penalty or I am just a WoW ghost.

Make leveling the game for most, not just a "rush through content to get to max" ... if people want to do that and lose out on the experience for "dings" more power to them but i want it to take monthS not weeks to get to max.
 
Quaid

Quaid

Trump's Staff
11,859
8,265
Jimbolini_sl said:
Interesting point... they seemed to be a year late on that. If you went back before the RI investment.. I wonder how much they could have raised?
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probably not even enough to service the interest on one month of that garbage loan.
 
Jimbolini

Jimbolini

Semi-pro Monopoly player
2,618
995
Quaid_sl said:
probably not even enough to service the interest on one month of that garbage loan.
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I am betting if they had gone Kickstarter from the beginning..assuming they had that option...Copernicus could have raised "Star Citizen" kind of money.
 
D

Draegan_sl

2 Minutes Hate
10,034
3
Muligan_sl said:
Just a question to admin/mods... would it be worthwhile to possibly have some of the more prevalent or repeated points listed in the initial post? I'm not saying Brad's going to take anything we say into any major consideration but if agreeable points are made would be nice to see them in one place for Brad or whoever to see the pulse of the community. I've seen several points that many of us agree.
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If you want to collect them, I'll stick them into OP. Shoot me a PM and I'll edit it and snag all the formatting.

edit:
I misread this. I thought you meant quotes from Brad. Nevermind.
 
Abefroman

Abefroman

Naxxramas 1.0 Raider
12,597
11,941
I wouldn't mind a leveling system like AO, I believe AC was the same way, gets harder and harder with diminishing returns. I'm sick of the 1-50 shit. Make peoples characters relevant sooner but allow people to keep on progressing.
 
G

gogojira_sl

shitlord
2,202
3
Draegan_sl said:
If you want to collect them, I'll stick them into OP. Shoot me a PM and I'll edit it and snag all the formatting.

edit:
I misread this. I thought you meant quotes from Brad. Nevermind.
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Same, but that's what I still intend to do along with the concept art and logo.
 
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