Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

Jimbolini

Jimbolini

Semi-pro Monopoly player
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Draegan_sl said:
What don't you understand? Player cast summons or portals require at least one person to travel the world. Some games force multiple people to activate a summons. Some games, in the past, made those spells very rare and difficult to acquire. In all three instances, the game world needs to be traveled/manipulated to get people into area. It's also limited.

Flying mounts allow players to hover above the ground, safely, and come down to kill one NPC, get out of combat, and run away or move to the next. With gathering tradeskills, it allows players to dip in, gather, and move on. It invalidates the world.

It has nothing to do with immersion from my point of view, it's more about not giving players tools to game the system.
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That makes total sense, but do you believe that method will sustain a large enough player base to be competitive?
 
zzeris

zzeris

King Turd of Shit Hill
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Mahulk_sl said:
What if your mount could be killed? I mean, if you get caught by trolls or ogres, it likely that your mount would escape in the wilds or gets killed...
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This is a very valid option. Let's expand it a bit further. Most mobs especially later would make the horse unmanageable and it basically throws you if you don't quickly dismount. If you dismount, you can't just tend to the horse and fight mobs. So the horse will run away. If thrown, you take some small damage but mainly get stunned for about 2-3 seconds. This gives you a real negative to just going riding wherever you please. Horses cost good money and are an expensive loss. Losing your life because you ran into that wondering Hill Giant and he flattened both of you can be very costly.

The benefits of horses are on roads. Have one major highway linking the cities on the continent. Have a few wandering guards patrol portions of the road until the end of that cities' territories. For large portions of the road, you can safely travel to meet with friends who are stationed far away. It gives you another option to portals and gates that can be fairly quick. It could also help limit the use of portals until end game. Make the wizards and druids top traveling spell a major accomplishment and a great source of later income instead of a quick and easy access spell earlier in the game. You could ride the horse halfway down the road and get to a certain spot you want to a bit quicker than other options possibly.Horses can move you through easy content in certain areas in the game. For instance, a high level who has good standing with gnolls, can move through their territories quickly and easily later in the game. The way to keep horses out of the early game is riding skill reqs. Expense also limits their use. Lol, it's just an idea so don't be too harsh people.
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Draegan_sl

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I don't like the argument claiming the size of a team, and the money it costs. We have no idea what the costs are, or the time needed to make it right. Unless you've been a project manager for a software product, it's a useless metric to force on a debate.

It's a good argument to have regardless of the team size or it's funds. In the end it opens up other discussions and other facets of game design. Breaking down game elements is a fun exercise to have. Lithose mentioned before that game developers really need to reset their mindsets and question why "must have features" are must have. Where did they come from, what problem did they originally fix, and does that problem still exist today given updated technology. Could we come up with a better solution to that original problem given the new tools developers have?
 
A

Amaru_sl

shitlord
36
0
zzeris_sl said:
This is a very valid option. Let's expand it a bit further. Most mobs especially later would make the horse unmanageable and it basically throws you if you don't quickly dismount. If you dismount, you can't just tend to the horse and fight mobs. So the horse will run away. If thrown, you take some small damage but mainly get stunned for about 2-3 seconds. This gives you a real negative to just going riding wherever you please. Horses cost good money and are an expensive loss. Losing your life because you ran into that wondering Hill Giant and he flattened both of you can be very costly.

The benefits of horses are on roads. Have one major highway linking the cities on the continent. Have a few wandering guards patrol portions of the road until the end of that cities' territories. For large portions of the road, you can safely travel to meet with friends who are stationed far away. It gives you another option to portals and gates that can be fairly quick. You could ride the horse halfway down the road and get to a certain spot you want to a bit quicker than other options possibly.Horses can move you through easy content in certain areas in the game. For instance, a high level who has good standing with gnolls, can move through their territories quickly and easily later in the game. The way to keep horses out of the early game is riding skill reqs. Expense also limits their use. Lol, it's just an idea so don't be too harsh people.
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I like it.
 
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Mahulk_sl

shitlord
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Orsenfelt_sl said:
For me the question of flying mounts goes back to something brought up earlier in the thread, low level zones should have the odd high level mob in them. Give high end players a reason to go back to the low zones. While you're there bashing in a snake with a rusty sword you should see the top end guys with the fancy shields and golden helmets doing their thing, maybe helping them find the big mob that killed you in one hit earlier.

Flying mounts skip all that, you just float over head until you get where you need to be and drop down.

The game should constantly try to force players together, to share space and to communicate. You can still have conveniences but I think they work best when they are given to a small subset of players instead of everyone. I'd prefer no flying mounts but if they are going to be there, why not give them to just one class and let them carry passengers. Druid-ish types are animal people, they have enoughwhateverto ride a pegasus and everyone else just gets thrown off.
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I also love the idea of having high and low level players interracting together to trade/sell/buy item, request buffs, pass-by in a zone where mobs have a big level range or saving each other asses from time to time.
 
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Draegan_sl

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Jimbolini_sl said:
That makes total sense, but do you believe that method will sustain a large enough player base to be competitive?
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In short: absolutely. The caveat is how you design your game. If you make a game world, that is full of shit trash mobs that aggro on you even if you're 50 levels above them that also daze you, dismount you, slow you down then you are probably a shitty developer.

If you're talking the context of this game which is a hardcore modern MMORPG aiming at a niche audience, you're not trying to be competitive with any other MMORPG in the first place.
 
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Orsenfelt_sl

shitlord
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shabushabu_sl said:
I would love to see a quest or something in a dungeon where party members get captured.
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The final boss in SW:ToR's only raid (at launch) sort of did that. Random members of the raid would get sucked into little pyramids and placed in an empty room. Everyone else had to bash the pyramids to get you out.

Draegan_sl said:
Yeah I can't wait for a game where someone randomly has to sit at their PC and not play.

"Oh fuck, I got captured. Hey guys, I'm afk for 30m."
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You could have them do something else. Play like a prisoner mind games mini game to shake the confidence of the guards.
 
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Amaru_sl

shitlord
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Draegan_sl said:
Yeah I can't wait for a game where someone randomly has to sit at their PC and not play.

"Oh fuck, I got captured. Hey guys, I'm afk for 30m."
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You could easily have that captured player be ported to a jail cell (i.e think of the current EQ tutorial zone). As he is trying to break out and get past guards the rest of the group is working towards getting him out. And to further this, I think it would be cool if in dungeons the patrol mobs didn't always kill you but instead take you off to some sort of jail cell that you have to escape from.

Yes I know the above is pipe dreams, but whatever.
 
mkopec

mkopec

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Jimbolini_sl said:
What about 2 years down the line and having to re run grey zones to get somewhere? Would you agree flying mounts remove that headache?
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People keep coming up with this excuse to have easy mode flying in the game. Its total BS. Travel in EQ was never a headache unless you were like Lv12 and trying to run from qeynos to EC. The more levels you had the better the SOW was and travel was never an issue.


Orsenfelt_sl said:
For me the question of flying mounts goes back to something brought up earlier in the thread, low level zones should have the odd high level mob in them. Give high end players a reason to go back to the low zones. While you're there bashing in a snake with a rusty sword you should see the top end guys with the fancy shields and golden helmets doing their thing, maybe helping them find the big mob that killed you in one hit earlier.

Flying mounts skip all that, you just float over head until you get where you need to be and drop down.

The game should constantly try to force players together, to share space and to communicate. You can still have conveniences but I think they work best when they are given to a small subset of players instead of everyone. I'd prefer no flying mounts but if they are going to be there, why not give them to just one class and let them carry passengers. Druid-ish types are animal people, they have enoughwhateverto ride a pegasus and everyone else just gets thrown off.
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Totally agree.
 
shabushabu

shabushabu

Molten Core Raider
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Amaru_sl said:
You could easily have that captured player be ported to a jail cell (i.e think of the current EQ tutorial zone). As he is trying to break out and get past guards the rest of the group is working towards getting him out. And to further this, I think it would be cool if in dungeons the patrol mobs didn't always kill you but instead take you off to some sort of jail cell that you have to escape from.

Yes I know the above is pipe dreams, but whatever.
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Its not that big of a deal and not hard to do... you could even split the party... or make 2 ppl fight out without equipment... It would be fun as hell, perhaps with a special reward where the jailer drops something nice.
 
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delirium_sl

shitlord
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shabushabu_sl said:
Its not that big of a deal and not hard to do... you could even split the party... or make 2 ppl fight out without equipment... It would be fun as hell, perhaps with a special reward where the jailer drops something nice.
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Could also add a timer where your party has 10 mins to save you or the trolls that captured you kill you and eat you for lunch. That would really put some excitement into it!
 
shabushabu

shabushabu

Molten Core Raider
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Orsenfelt_sl said:
The final boss in SW:ToR's only raid (at launch) sort of did that. Random members of the raid would get sucked into little pyramids and placed in an empty room. Everyone else had to bash the pyramids to get you out.



You could have them do something else. Play like a prisoner mind games mini game to shake the confidence of the guards.
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This is a total pipe dream but here goes:

You have NON combat skills, like diplomacy and such ( D&D ) where you can talk your way out of something like that... or if you are a rogue and have stealth, perhaps you stealth out.. caster, invis out. Warrior or monk, Bare hand fist fights ? It would be awesome ! etc etc etc etc...

To simplify it, its a "solo quest" to escape and maybe based on your class some can get out, some have to wait for friends to get them.. damn that would be cool shit.
 
Mr Creed

Mr Creed

Too old for this shit
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I havent heard what the flying mount is good for except faster and safer solo travel, bypassing content and cherry-picking kills or resource nodes. I thought adding features like that are bad for the game concept we are talking about here.
 
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delirium_sl

shitlord
217
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How do you guys feel about this? PVP is a stretch goal but regardless of being on a PVP server, how to you feel about environmental damage? I mean besides falling to your death or lava, what if another player blows something up and you get hit with schrapnel? Should it hurt you regardless of being on pvp or not? I can see some feel this would be a way to grief other players so may not be a good idea in practice.
 
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Orsenfelt_sl

shitlord
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Troy_Costisick_sl said:
How do people feel about twinking their newb toons? This was a huge part of EQ1, but since then games have taken extraordinary means to prevent it.
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It only annoys me on PVP. On PVE only servers it doesn't really matter but being chased about by some bell end with more HP than your entire groupanda pocket Shaman somewhere (Just to make extra sure every fight is incredibly unfair) gets old really quickly.
 
Flobee

Flobee

Vyemm Raider
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Draegan_sl said:
I don't like the argument claiming the size of a team, and the money it costs. We have no idea what the costs are, or the time needed to make it right. Unless you've been a project manager for a software product, it's a useless metric to force on a debate.

It's a good argument to have regardless of the team size or it's funds. In the end it opens up other discussions and other facets of game design. Breaking down game elements is a fun exercise to have. Lithose mentioned before that game developers really need to reset their mindsets and questionwhy "must have features" are must have. Where did they come from, what problem did they originally fix, and does that problem still exist today given updated technology.Could we come up with a better solution to that original problem given the new tools developers have?
Click to expand...
I really find that line of thinking interesting and it creates a fun mental exercise. Good stuff!
 
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