Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO
- Thread starter gogojira_sl
- Start date
So transparency has actually been the problem. If they had went full on Vanguard bullshit mode and talked about every little rock they dream of having in the game the page would actually look like a fleshed out idea and might be doing better. The Vision? might actually let them skip by showing real working code but not if what you replace it with looks like you're asking to be paid to start writing a design document.
'There's really nothing being held back - all the info we have is out there'
Doesn't day one of "How to be a slimy PR guy" school tell you toneversay that?
'There's really nothing being held back - all the info we have is out there'
Doesn't day one of "How to be a slimy PR guy" school tell you toneversay that?
rhinohelix
Dental Dammer
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I haven't been able to be as active in this thread as I would have liked but to go as negative as this thread has is really counter-productive. Is the KS not great? I was one of the first people criticizing it, so its not like anyone disagrees on that. Troy also makes great point on the way this KS is being used: Its OK to not have a full game, or all the details, or anything more than the First Principles to launch a KS. I personally think that slow-rolling the information out isn't what's hurting them now, where we seem to have hit the true-believer limit. Doing it in that manner keeps people coming back for details, and allows for News Sites to give them free pub throughout the KS.
What's hurting them now is the combination of two things: 1) Folks memories of Vanguard; 2) the very lackluster KS execution. Without one or the other of those things, good will carries this at least twice as far, if not further by now. To potential backers afraid of a Vanguard repeat, they need to have a strong, organized, well-planned execution of the KS. This is a surrogate for the actual game dev process, and seeing this seemingly-well run would allow them to move past the trust issues relating to Vanguard. Mark Jacobs had a potential backlash waiting for WAR but the KS was really well done and gave people a reason to trust the game was going to be better. While it has improved as time as gone on, it hasn't improved enough such that the Pantheon KS hasn't provided that level of comfort to people, so large numbers sit on the fence and the feeling of upcoming failure is driving the emotional response of the die-hards here. Nothing is worse than feeling that you committed and then were let down by those you put faith in; its a reverse-apostate process.
I am not saying it needs to be done now but if in conjunction with KS experts, VR comes to decided they aren't going to make it, they should stop the KS as soon as possible with plans to relaunch in 4-6 weeks, with all the kinks worked out of the screenshots, tiers, stretch goals, and PR campaign plans. Remember, without a working demo, the KS is a surrogate for the game and the execution needs to be as organized and perceived as well-planned as possible. That is what gets this funded, not necro details, or just-in-time landscapes. Show people you can do the game as well as I think you can by doing the kickstarter well also.
What's hurting them now is the combination of two things: 1) Folks memories of Vanguard; 2) the very lackluster KS execution. Without one or the other of those things, good will carries this at least twice as far, if not further by now. To potential backers afraid of a Vanguard repeat, they need to have a strong, organized, well-planned execution of the KS. This is a surrogate for the actual game dev process, and seeing this seemingly-well run would allow them to move past the trust issues relating to Vanguard. Mark Jacobs had a potential backlash waiting for WAR but the KS was really well done and gave people a reason to trust the game was going to be better. While it has improved as time as gone on, it hasn't improved enough such that the Pantheon KS hasn't provided that level of comfort to people, so large numbers sit on the fence and the feeling of upcoming failure is driving the emotional response of the die-hards here. Nothing is worse than feeling that you committed and then were let down by those you put faith in; its a reverse-apostate process.
I am not saying it needs to be done now but if in conjunction with KS experts, VR comes to decided they aren't going to make it, they should stop the KS as soon as possible with plans to relaunch in 4-6 weeks, with all the kinks worked out of the screenshots, tiers, stretch goals, and PR campaign plans. Remember, without a working demo, the KS is a surrogate for the game and the execution needs to be as organized and perceived as well-planned as possible. That is what gets this funded, not necro details, or just-in-time landscapes. Show people you can do the game as well as I think you can by doing the kickstarter well also.
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Another point to the people going on about how if this gets close it will get funding blah, blah. Of course it will, if it reaches $700,000 then Brad himself would take out a loan if he had to in order to provide the other $100,000 unless it's dumb which is a very good possibility. You see Kickstarter takes 5% off the top so out of the $800k raised brad would get $760k check of which he would pay himself back the $100k he put in himself and still have a remainder of $660k..
But what about Taxes herp derp, well we can assume that Visionary Realms, Inc. is in fact an Incorporation partially because it says so in their fucking name. So while they will receive money from Kickstarter it would be easy enough to put that money to use in a way that their year end return is in the red and they report a loss for the year. That is if he hires and accountant and doesn't file the return himself with just good intentions and excuses for the IRS as to how he isn't a CPA.
But what about Taxes herp derp, well we can assume that Visionary Realms, Inc. is in fact an Incorporation partially because it says so in their fucking name. So while they will receive money from Kickstarter it would be easy enough to put that money to use in a way that their year end return is in the red and they report a loss for the year. That is if he hires and accountant and doesn't file the return himself with just good intentions and excuses for the IRS as to how he isn't a CPA.
Muligan
Trakanon Raider
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I actually decided to pull my pledge for the time being. I honestly mean no disrespect to these guys and I am trying to sympathize with the current situation but their releases just seem a mess and shot from the hip. I'm not saying I won't ultimately pledge but this continual lack of planning is not for me. From day 1 it seems they have been figuring it out on the fly. These guys are not strangers to the industry and there have been too many others (i.e. Garriott and Jacobs) to not understand how KS works.
Honestly, I felt lore week was kind of a slap in the face. I'm sure this there way to buy time so they can get other things together and/or they are attempt to put the good stuff towards the end but I feel most of what they'll end up with is what was needed to at the beginning.
I agree with an earlier post. This KS should have been painted as what is needed to start up the company and then later release a KS for the game. They are placing the cart before the horse and to be honest, they don't own either.
I jumped on board the first day and probably should have simply reduced my pledge but the more I read, the more I feel like I am supporting mediocrity. To me, in business, and what I expect out of my employees and students, this is below expectations.
That's my personal opinion in regards to me and my own money. I hope over the next couple of weeks I am proved wrong so I have the confidence to pledge again.
Honestly, I felt lore week was kind of a slap in the face. I'm sure this there way to buy time so they can get other things together and/or they are attempt to put the good stuff towards the end but I feel most of what they'll end up with is what was needed to at the beginning.
I agree with an earlier post. This KS should have been painted as what is needed to start up the company and then later release a KS for the game. They are placing the cart before the horse and to be honest, they don't own either.
I jumped on board the first day and probably should have simply reduced my pledge but the more I read, the more I feel like I am supporting mediocrity. To me, in business, and what I expect out of my employees and students, this is below expectations.
That's my personal opinion in regards to me and my own money. I hope over the next couple of weeks I am proved wrong so I have the confidence to pledge again.
Muligan
Trakanon Raider
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Agreed, I can't deal with those people. You can't even troll them. I would love to know at what time they played EQ and/or VG?
DickTrickle
Definitely NOT Furor Planedefiler
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OMFG LOL
Grim Mind 8 minutes ago
I wonder when they are going to do a Twitch session. It can draw a lot of eyes, and they can just show someone doing basic dungeon/zone/mob creation while they or someone else talks to the chat room.
Grim Mind 8 minutes ago
I wonder when they are going to do a Twitch session. It can draw a lot of eyes, and they can just show someone doing basic dungeon/zone/mob creation while they or someone else talks to the chat room.
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No you are twisting this a little. Transparency has been a problem since day one, Brad had two options really, he could of been straight forward and honest about what he was trying to do which would be a Kickstarter for a gaming studio, who's first project would be an MMO named Pantheon. Of which you could have talked about the company itself as well the as current staff and founders. How no major gaming company would allow them to freedom to truly create the game they wanted so that want to start their own and need the support of fans like you. You know the fucking truth. Or he could have waited a few more weeks and maybe lost a couple of guys who wouldn't hang around playing in Brads basement but at least put together a clear plan about Pantheon and fleshed out his Kickstarter.
Instead he choose to throw shit at the wall hoping people would give him money to play make believe. So no transparency is a huge fucking issue and as we keep trying to peak under the curtain we realize there is nothing behind it but a fucking shit waffle.
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LOL, I dont think thats anyone from here other than a lurker.Also which one of you fat fucks is this?
This isn't surprising. The people who have put the most work into this project are not even on it. I knew this was going to be a train wreck when they put the KS up and then went radio silent. Leaving people like Troy to try and keep the information flowing. Someone even had to compile a list of places for them to go to spread the word. I'm sure they are busting ass now to try and produce something, but that is just damage control at this point. They should of been busting ass producing this stuff BEFORE they started the KS. If they honestly thought that just mentioning things like EQ, Seb, corpse runs etc was going to get them millions of dollars then they are fucking delusional. It was going to get them a handful of diehard EQ fans who would of donated to a blank page. They needed so much more then that if they wanted to even hit the 800k mark. Some of those stretch goals? Rofl...no. They needed to be doing work on this MONTHS ago. We should of never been shown thrown together screenshots with stock unity assets, and given generic descriptions of classes we have seen a million times.
Believe it or not I'd love to see a old school MMO. These guys are not the ones who are going to make it fellas. This isn't just total amateur hour. It is disorganized and very little preparation went into this before they started asking for money. If by some miracle they do get funded they pretty much just robbed you. This sort of thing isn't going to suddenly stop just because they now have funds. Same guys, same level of disorganization... just with your money in their pockets now.
I understand that many of you want a modern EQ so bad it hurts. I honestly feel for you. Have some self respect though boys. These guys don't deserve your money even if it is a tiny amount. Take that $250 and go take your wife out to a nice dinner or something. Don't waste it on people who have less enthusiasm about their own project than you do.
Lasch
Trakanon Raider
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That is such a depressing msg from Ben. At least before I was able to console myself with, "they are just bad at kickstarter." Now? They are bad at KS and spent months with almost nothing to show for it. Im letting them keep my pledge, but just because I'm the dude from an officer & a gentleman and have no where else to go.
Were they working on cars in that garage? How is this all they have to show?
Were they working on cars in that garage? How is this all they have to show?
Big Flex
Fitness Fascist
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hahaha that guy, see his other comment about rerolled that was essentially 'Simba, that shadowy place over there, you must never go there.' in warning to his fellow KS comment postersAlso which one of you fat fucks is this?
Quineloe
Ahn'Qiraj Raider
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Would you believe me if I said that's me?Also which one of you fat fucks is this?
Frankly you have to be out of your mind to think that funding for a company would be considered personal income by the IRS. Simply not the case here in Germany.
Can't you just file a tax return if you can prove all that money went into a company?
Bullshit. Not this time. Truth is actually what we do need to see more of. Its not like were so fucking stupid we haven't been saying this for a week now anyway. Most of us called this the day after it started.