Pan'Theon: Rise' of th'e Fal'Len - #1 Thread in MMO

So, was there a group of people that thought brad wouldnotfail you in the same way he failed you a few years ago?

I'd be more upset if EQL didn't look like an amazing fallback in the meantime.

Next step is Brad will come back here to tell us how he's learned from his mistakes (again) without admitting what those mistakes were ("we could have done a better job" "KickStarter was a learning process, it was our first one") and that he's still super psyched about what Pantheon is going to be. Then he's going to show us a picture of a fork and 2 paragraphs about how cooking in Pantheon is going to capture the feeling you get right after you've finished eating and see that huge pile of dishes in the sink, but there isn't going to be a dishwasher. Instead you go out adventuring in the world to find puddles of water and Palmolive trees to clean the dishes with. The puddles are dynamically generated and when it's raining there will be more puddles which means you can clean more dishes.

Then we're all gonna complain that cooking sounds fucking retarded and they obviously have no idea what they are doing and then Ben is going to respond two days later with "Hey guys, just to clarify, the dish cleaning is just one small part of cooking overall in Pantheon. It's something new and exciting we wanted to share with you so we threw out that little bit of information to give you guys an idea of what we're going for but cooking will be much more than just cleaning dishes. For instance we thought Diablo 3's treasure goblins were a great new modern day feature so we're planning on incorporating something similar. We'll have swedish chefs that randomly spawn throughout the world and each time you hit them they drop herbs and spices. If you're powerful enough to kill them before they hurdy flurdy shuffle you have a chance to receive rare cooking utensils and secret recipes. I don't want to get ahead of myself but there will be sous-vide machines. Oh, and you'll need a group to kill him"

Skanda_sl said:

This pretty much echos my thoughts. I think the people who want to see another 'old school' game way over-imagine how much of a market there really is for another EQ/VG. Even the fabled Boogie-Bump was only good for a couple of hundred people. Sure the bad kickstarter will have limited its effect but if a guy with a 1.5 million strong audience can only muster a measly couple of hundred people to show support it just shows me the market for a game like this is being way overstated.

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Yeah, a guy with a dubious track record trying to get funding for a game that few want. The outcome is hardly surprising.

Carl_sl said:

So, was there a group of people that thought brad wouldnotfail you in the same way he failed you a few years ago?

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apples and oranges here. brad hasn't technically failed this time. he just doesn't have the financial backing to make the game he wants. failure this time around would be if he had 20 million to make the game and it turned out like VG. that would be failure. not having the scratch to even get the game off the ground isn't the same thing. if you want to call his KS a failure, i'll give you that; although brad has never claimed to be master of KS.

So many fair weather fans here. No wonder Brad completely stopped posting here.

I still stand behind Brad and the Pantheon team. I just got through posting on my Facebook asking my friends and family to repost it on Facebook and Twitter. Even if I get one person to pledge, I did my part. I just wish the rest of you would pull your egos out of your collective assholes and do the same.

We all knew Brad was not a marketing genius, and we all knew he would not do a good job on this kickstarter. Nobody should be suprised. The only thing that changed from when you all praised and Brad and now is you all chose to hate on the kickstarter and Brad. You KNEW going in to this it would be a major rough ride.

I'm not fair weather , I was glad to give Brad a chance to show he had learned from the Vanguard problems and went in on my first Kickstarter for around 500 dollars.

The very first task that anyone with any business sense, no, fuck that , anyone with common sense, should do if asking for roughly a million dollars on a Kickstarter ? Research what makes a good Kickstarter campaign before you launch it.

Tell me in any sense of the world how he did not fail on this initial and important task ?

Why should I excuse him and give him yet another chance ?

Bilbo Faggins_sl said:

We all knew Brad was not a marketing genius, and we all knew he would not do a good job on this kickstarter. Nobody should be suprised. The only thing that changed from when you all praised and Brad and now is you all chose to hate on the kickstarter and Brad. You KNEW going in to this it would be a major rough ride.

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I dont think so. Most are simply shocked at the state of the KS at release. For something that was supposedly in the works for the last X months, it looked like it was thrown together in a matter of weeks. I am not a KS pro, but even I could have taken the time to look at some successful and unsuccessful KS projects and worked around that. It was just a complete shit show (both the pitch and tiers). Then it was on and off periods of going dark, then throwing vague nuggets of info out and hoping for the best. Worst of all, it became more and more evident that the development / napkin design was no where near as far along as anyone had hoped. It was as if they were comping up with design on-the-fly dead in the middle of a KS campaign. Complete amateur hour. This should never have been pitched on KS until a solid foundation of ideas were made and had an actual design and or philosophy to sell.

I do not think this KS is any indication whatsoever of a lack of desire for this niche genre. It was more of a reflection of a piss poor KS pitch. If you took anyone outside of EQ / VG roots to look at this KS page, it had nothing whatsoever to stand out against the million other MMO clone bullshit titles of the last decade.

Bilbo Faggins_sl said:

So many fair weather fans here. No wonder Brad completely stopped posting here.

I still stand behind Brad and the Pantheon team. I just got through posting on my Facebook asking my friends and family to repost it on Facebook and Twitter. Even if I get one person to pledge, I did my part. I just wish the rest of you would pull your egos out of your collective assholes and do the same.

We all knew Brad was not a marketing genius, and we all knew he would not do a good job on this kickstarter. Nobody should be suprised. The only thing that changed from when you all praised and Brad and now is you all chose to hate on the kickstarter and Brad. You KNEW going in to this it would be a major rough ride.

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Uh, I expected the presentation of what they are actually trying to make would be a hell of a lot better than what we got, which is nothing. Considering he said countless times they got started in September, considering the KS was even delayed from last year. Logic tells you that they must be putting something tangible together so that the KS can succeed. Instead you got bullet points, a couple paragraphs per class description, some art (some of which wasn't even created for Pantheon), stock Unity screenshots and youtube interviews.

We'll praise Brad (and the project) when there is something worth praising.

Vandyn_sl said:

I agree, saying EQ was a great PvP game simply means you never played PvP in any other game. Hell, I think vanilla WoW's PvP was better than EQ. EQ was never designed as a PvP game. DAoC was, UO was.

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ive been pvping since 1996 in Sierra's The Realm. UO had great pvp, but it was definately not designed to be a pvp game, the player invention of hally dump techniques etc were just as much of a fluke as feign pulling was in EQ. Go boot up the An Corp server and get some brit gy pvp in and come back amd tell mehow much better it is than pvp in oasis was. spoiler alert, it isn't.

unless you think popping magic trapped pouches was a more though out and intentionally designed mechanic than blowing pumice on people.

Vandyn_sl said:

Uh, I expected the presentation of what they are actually trying to make would be a hell of a lot better than what we got, which is nothing. Considering he said countless times they got started in September, considering the KS was even delayed from last year. Logic tells you that they must be putting something tangible together so that the KS can succeed. Instead you got bullet points, a couple paragraphs per class description, some art (some of which wasn't even created for Pantheon), stock Unity screenshots and youtube interviews.

We'll praise Brad (and the project) when there is something worth praising.

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Pretty much exactly my point.

Vandyn_sl said:

Uh, I expected the presentation of what they are actually trying to make would be a hell of a lot better than what we got, which is nothing. Consideringhe said countless times they got started in September, considering the KS was even delayed from last year. Logic tells you that they must be putting something tangible together so that the KS can succeed. Instead you got bullet points, a couple paragraphs per class description, some art (some of which wasn't even created for Pantheon), stock Unity screenshots and youtube interviews.

We'll praise Brad (and the project) when there is something worth praising.

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Someone please , please try and explain to me why even those of us who want this type of game , shouldn't look at this statement , then look at the Kickstarter that launched and come to the conclusion this guy has no fucking idea how to run anything ?

There's zero way I can see spinning in any shape or form , a better presentation for asking for a million dollars couldn't be done in 5 months by a Facebook mom on the weekends much less a team of developers.

Running the KS isn't making the game , but it does go to overall judgement and decision making. The "we aren't KS experts" shit is ludicrous , one man garage teams for a Magic The Gathering Kickstarter knockoff put up ones x100 better.

How many swings does he get to run anything ?

For those that were wondering, The Realm was 2D, side scrolling, turn based PvP and kicked ass unless your brother picked up the phone and broke your dial up connection.

Dahkoht_sl said:

How many swings does he get to run anything ?

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This is it. Hes done. I've said it like 5 times, people are willing to say "Give Brad a second chance!", saying "Give Brad a fourth chance!" doesn't sound quite as palatable.

I remember a lot of people in AC came over from The Realm because they were both on Microsoft Zone (along with Jedi Knight 1)

I think that was the game. I'd never played it though

bayr_sl said:

I remember a lot of people in AC came over from The Realm because they were both on Microsoft Zone (along with Jedi Knight 1)

I think that was the game. I'd never played it though

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Alot of Realm people went the same route I did Realm -> UO -> AC and so on.

FYI The Realm is still up and running, it has a free trial and I think like 50 to maybe 200 people max still play.The Realm Online | MMORPG

Lets just play that, guys.

Well for one thing, I like the concept, classes, races and lore they have released so far. From what I have read on their kickstarter, I like it a lot.

I don't need screenshots, videos and flashy crap. All of the games that have sucked major ass over the past decade had awesome screenshots, videos and flashy awesomeness. What those shitty games did not have is a core game concept that was worth playing.

The Pantheon team has what matters most, a workable game concept. They didn't just scribble "copy wow" on a napkin and call it a game design like the other fuckers have for the past fucking decade.

You want pretty graphics to stand behind the project? Then maybe you deserve all the piss poor wow clones on the market.

Bilbo Faggins_sl said:

The Pantheon team has what matters most, a workable game concept.

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You are completely delusional. They currently have no concept of what the game is going to be. They are throwing ideas at their audience hoping shit will stick.

Bilbo Faggins_sl said:

The Pantheon team has what matters most, a workable game concept.

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Uh, no, pretty much "business 101" for any startup is all about how well you execute. Ideas are a dime a dozen - nothing matters more than your ability to execute and deliver. They have not shown that their team has any ability to actually ship a game.

Which isn't surprising, giving how it's almost all "idea people".

Bilbo Faggins_sl said:

Well for one thing, I like the concept, classes, races and lore they have released so far. From what I have read on their kickstarter, I like it a lot.

I don't need screenshots, videos and flashy crap. All of the games that have sucked major ass over the past decade had awesome screenshots, videos and flashy awesomeness. What those shitty games did not have is a core game concept that was worth playing.

The Pantheon team has what matters most, a workable game concept. They didn't just scribble "copy wow" on a napkin and call it a game design like the other fuckers have for the past fucking decade.

You want pretty graphics to stand behind the project? Then maybe you deserve all the piss poor wow clones on the market.

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You've lost your mind. They've admitted they are making shit up on the fly.

I don't want pretty graphics initially , I want business 101 fucking common sense to show me you can run more than a lemonade stand.

Good luck , you and the others can privately fund the shit , I'm not paypal'ing a dime of my original KS pledge to a private site after seeing this shit.