Path of Exile 2

Ever since the patch today the loading times anytime I start a fresh instance of the game are crazy.

Springbok said:

What's weird about the campaign length/difficulty - it's not even good. Like, I would be rushing the player base through it to get to end game (which also isn't good yet - early access I get it) because the campagin isn't a ton of fun. No idea what's going on, don't care one iota for the story (we're time travelers or some shit?)... there has to be a point during the leveling up process where you think "shit, this is so fun. This class/these bosses/that new skill are so fun and interesting I CAN'T STOP playing now! Instead, through about 8 characters to max over the past however long this has been released, I feel like quitting multiptle times during a playthrough because these guys have an erection for infesting this game with artificial (and very real) friction where there doesn't need to be any. There is a good game here, somewhere, but as constructed it's a million miles away from being ready to release. That doesn't even cover non-gameplay issues like already dated graphics, screen clutter, poor optimization, horrendous looking gear/armor (it'd be cool to look cool while playing an ARPG hunting cool gear), etc.

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Exactly how I feel about the game at this point. Last two times I've played the game were both on free weekends. Loaded the game up on my xbox where I don't normally own PoE2, but at least if I'm going to slog through something that sucks ass I can be a bit more comfortable doing it.... and I still quit both times long before getting to the end. This time I didn't even make it 20 minutes into act 2 after getting the portal MTX. Hell, I had to start three different classes to find something (plant druid) I could even tolerate playing for that long.

I'll never understand why they felt it was a good idea to front load the game with bullshit "difficulty" (not really the right word, it's just that it's absolute aids to play anything that isn't extremely strong right out of the gate) in act 1 when 95% of the endgame is completely trivial.

mkopec said:

I havent seen any quests in act 4 yet, and im like 1/2 way through. But yeah, 1,2,3 all had them.

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I assume.e you found it but on the expedition island you go in the new zone.

Well good news now you can be a whirling assault monk and be even stronger!

Pick your flavor of free infinite charges to spend, or infinite combo to start your ES recharge 5 times a second.

Did anyone else have a weird bug where almost all the adjacent nodes on the skill tree aren't clickable until you hunt down one that actually works and select/unselect it? It wasn't game-breaking but it was a pain in the ass every time I leveled up.

Vorph said:

Did anyone else have a weird bug where almost all the adjacent nodes on the skill tree aren't clickable until you hunt down one that actually works and select/unselect it? It wasn't game-breaking but it was a pain in the ass every time I leveled up.

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Yes. Had this exactly on ps5, took me a while to figure out that workaround

mkopec said:

Yeah I disagree. You can still have a GGG game with some input from the average. Im not saying to redesign your entire game so that a blind person with no hands can play it. But at the same time, designing your game for the POE1 10 yr veterans and expecting a larger audience to come and play it is nuts. The average IS playing Diablo, not this, lol. Who wants to slog through 20+ hours of campaign, which isnt even done yet, there is more to come, to get to this "new end game" they patched in ranted and raved about for 3 weeks? Whats wrong with a Diablo 4 experience early on that molds into a POE experience by end game?

Im watching Gladd play this, for his second time, btw. And the dude is a gamer. Hes not even done with act 3 and hes up to 9 hours already. And he keeps saying how awesome the game is but what a slog fest the campaign is. Hes asking Why the fuck he has to play through the campaign over and over again once hes done it aleady?

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I think you're arguing against a position I didn't actually take.

I've been one of the loudest critics of PoE 2's early game. I never said the campaign shouldn't be improved. In fact, I've been saying the opposite. Act 1 damage is overtuned, too many early skills and supports are garbage, and the early game could absolutely use some smoothing out. None of that means the solution is to make the game more like Diablo 4.

The reason Diablo 4's campaign feels faster isn't because Blizzard solved some great ARPG design problem. It's because the game is almost completely devoid of friction. Resource management barely matters, gearing barely matters, character progression is heavily streamlined, and most content falls over if you look at it funny. That's why so many people blast through it, say it was fun for a weekend, and then disappear.

You're presenting a false choice: either PoE 2 caters to 10-year PoE veterans (which it doesn't - they've simplified a LOT of shit in PoE2, even moreso with the .build files) or it becomes Diablo 4 and/or "Joe Average Gamer" accessible. There is a massive middle ground between those two extremes. As for "the average player plays Diablo," that's true. The average player also quits Diablo. That's not exactly the argument you think it is. And at the end of the day, what do I give a shit? If the average player wants to enjoy ARPG slop, that's up to them. I'd rather POE2 have as little in common with D4 as possible.

And if we're talking about "first-time players", I don't think the answer is shortening or trivializing the experience. The answer is making sure the experience is actually fun. Give players more viable early skills. Tone down some of the ridiculous damage spikes. Improve the pacing where needed. Those are fixes to the campaign. Turning the first 20 hours into a faster, easier version of the game isn't "fixing" shit. It's just making it shorter.

If GGG can improve early skill balance, and smooth out some of the rough spots, great. But the answer isn't turning the first X hours into a loot fest where every skill works, every monster dies instantly, and every player wins regardless of what they're doing, then suddenly turns into "POE" at end-game. That's exactly how you end up with a game people praise for three days and abandon until the next "expansion" Blizzard milks them on to do it all over again.

Easy tips if you are in interludes and need better gear. Just loot this and sell and you are set.

My luckiest League start ever lol.

Kirun said:

I think you're arguing against a position I didn't actually take.

I've been one of the loudest critics of PoE 2's early game. I never said the campaign shouldn't be improved. In fact, I've been saying the opposite. Act 1 damage is overtuned, too many early skills and supports are garbage, and the early game could absolutely use some smoothing out. None of that means the solution is to make the game more like Diablo 4.

The reason Diablo 4's campaign feels faster isn't because Blizzard solved some great ARPG design problem. It's because the game is almost completely devoid of friction. Resource management barely matters, gearing barely matters, character progression is heavily streamlined, and most content falls over if you look at it funny. That's why so many people blast through it, say it was fun for a weekend, and then disappear.

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Vs poe 2 where people blast through act 1 over a weekend, say it's not fun, and then disappear?

Kirun said:

You're presenting a false choice: either PoE 2 caters to 10-year PoE veterans (which it doesn't - they've simplified a LOT of shit in PoE2, even moreso with the .build files) or it becomes Diablo 4 and/or "Joe Average Gamer" accessible. There is a massive middle ground between those two extremes. As for "the average player plays Diablo," that's true. The average player also quits Diablo. That's not exactly the argument you think it is. And at the end of the day, what do I give a shit? If the average player wants to enjoy ARPG slop, that's up to them. I'd rather POE2 have as little in common with D4 as possible.

And if we're talking about "first-time players", I don't think the answer is shortening or trivializing the experience. The answer is making sure the experience is actually fun. Give players more viable early skills. Tone down some of the ridiculous damage spikes. Improve the pacing where needed. Those are fixes to the campaign. Turning the first 20 hours into a faster, easier version of the game isn't "fixing" shit. It's just making it shorter.

If GGG can improve early skill balance, and smooth out some of the rough spots, great. But the answer isn't turning the first X hours into a loot fest where every skill works, every monster dies instantly, and every player wins regardless of what they're doing, then suddenly turns into "POE" at end-game. That's exactly how you end up with a game people praise for three days and abandon until the next "expansion" Blizzard milks them on to do it all over again.

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You say "don't turn it into d4 where every skill works" while also saying "balance early skills". What exactly are you proposing? Buffing some of the early skills but still leaving them shitty and not worth using, because we wouldn't want every skill to be usable like d4, after all? "Smooth out rough spots" by leaving them rough still, but just a tad less rough, since we don't want players to actually win unless they're still doing the meta thing, just make the failure not quite as awful when they're trying to have fun instead of be meta?

I gotta admit Act 4 feels a helluva lot better and you start feeling like you finally found the fun. Getting through those first three though, big oof. Tone down Act 1 and shorten up Act 3 would do some heavy lifting to make the campaign feel better IMO.

I thought the campaign felt faster this time and it felt like I cruised through some zones. Then I did a /played and it took me 9 hours to do the campaign so not shorter at all. Losing power and going outside made the game feel better? I don't know but the campaign still feels meh. I think D3 and D4 nailed it where the leveling progress to end game should escalate in power and take 4-5 hours.

Playing the lich plants build. The build itself is pretty fun.

Got to maps after 15h, I'm quite the speed runner....

Plants owning everything. Sold the Kalandra ring for 13 Divines. Got a +4 staff and some cheap some resist gear, so now I can grind some levels until I fix the gear for real.

Not sure what the Atlas strat is, I'm going for Hilda then doing Fortress I guess.

I'm slow rolling, still in act 2 (tabletop games this weekend getting in the way). i'm doing spiritwalker bossbeast build and i don't actually have the build realized yet. I got ascension 1 and got the boss tamer and went and got the crowbell to play with. man, with a +range...his cone attack goes off t he screen, maybe another half screen. kind of hilarious to watch. gonna try hyena boss next.

Aazrael said:

Got to maps after 15h, I'm quite the speed runner....

Plants owning everything. Sold the Kalandra ring for 13 Divines. Got a +4 staff and some cheap some resist gear, so now I can grind some levels until I fix the gear for real.

Not sure what the Atlas strat is, I'm going for Hilda then doing Fortress I guess.

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For Atlas I'll be concentrating on one at a time and grinding them up. Soccer games and stuff all day but tonight I'll probably pick Breach and just deep dive it for the rings and materials to sell.

zombiewizardhawk said:

Vs poe 2 where people blast through act 1 over a weekend, say it's not fun, and then disappear?

You say "don't turn it into d4 where every skill works" while also saying "balance early skills". What exactly are you proposing? Buffing some of the early skills but still leaving them shitty and not worth using, because we wouldn't want every skill to be usable like d4, after all? "Smooth out rough spots" by leaving them rough still, but just a tad less rough, since we don't want players to actually win unless they're still doing the meta thing, just make the failure not quite as awful when they're trying to have fun instead of be meta?

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Apparently, in your mind, there are only two possible states: Half the early skills are dogshit and nobody uses them. Or every skill works equally well and we're basically playing Diablo 4. There is a massive amount of space between those two positions.

When I say balance early skills, I don't mean every skill should perform identically. I mean players shouldn't feel like they've accidentally griefed themselves because they picked one of the many obviously inferior options. PoE 1 is actually a great example of this. Not every leveling skill is equal. Some are faster. Some are smoother. Some are meta. Some still kinda suck, but most of them are at least functional. You can level with a huge variety of skills without feeling like you're actively sabotaging your character.

PoE 2 currently has too many skills and supports that aren't just weaker, they genuinely feel unfinished, clunky, or dramatically worse than the obvious alternatives. It's really just bad balance.

Likewise, when I say Act 1 damage should come down, I'm not saying players should automatically win. I'm saying there's a difference between challenge and punishment. If a player dies because they ignored mechanics, built poorly, or played poorly, that's fine. If a player dies because they picked one of the weaker early-game setups and the game is balanced around the handful of outliers that actually work well, that's not meaningful difficulty.

And as for the "people blast through Act 1 over a weekend and quit" comment, you're accidentally making my point for me. If people are quitting because the early game isn't fun, then maybe the solution is to make the early game more fun? Not shorter. Not easier. Not more like Diablo. Just better.

You keep acting like any criticism of the campaign inevitably leads to a "be more like Diablo 4" design philosophy. That's the part I reject. A campaign can be challenging without being tedious. Skills can be viable without being identical and player choice can matter without half the choices being traps.