Path of Exile

Warmuth

Warmuth

Molten Core Raider
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So as a standard shitter is there any time for me to roll up in league and get anything of value that will transfer over? From the way it seems only the high end players actually have items which will be sought after once they hit standard anyway since the plebs just sold fractured stuff to the crafters and the fractured items won’t be able to be synthesized without the league mechanic? I considered doing it before they announced it wasn’t going core but at the time it seemed pointless since the league was so hated.
 
Slaanesh69

Slaanesh69

Millie's Staff Member
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Well, trash me as you may, but I think Chris Wilson is officially out of touch with his game now. The GDC presentation showcased how GGG is chasing quick returns on quick turnaround leagues. I don't have a problem with their business model aside from the speed meta is not necessarily my thing, but it's their game so fill your boots.

His apology post was well said, but just a bunch of words. Damage control, mostly, for possibly the worst received league ever (even moreso than Bestiary? Incredible!) Time will tell if real improvements are made in the future, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

But reading that Q&A? Wilson is an idiot.

"If a player doesn't want to interact with specific past league content, then it's usually possible to just avoid starting the event. For example in the case of Abyss or Breach, you can just walk around the object that triggers it. However, this typically feels pretty bad for players, because the content usually comes with generous rewards, so players are missing out if they choose not to play it."

No, you jackass, it doesn't feel bad because THEY AVOIDED IT KNOWINGLY. Why don't you just come straight out and say what you mean "We want our players to access every single bit of design we have included, whether they like it or not". This has been an issue with GGG for many years - they are stubborn that players are squeezed through every small hole they make. Also, Betrayal mechanics (and to a lesser extent Bestiary) - do you even play your game?

"The honest answer here is that we believe that game systems like Delve will become boring if you have unlimited access to them, and so it's important to limit their access by requiring regular Path of Exile play between sessions of special content"

Bullshit. You fear that if you allow full access to this, or something like Leaguestones, that players will ignore the rest of your game you insist on cramming up their ass non-stop.

"We are fully aware of clear-speed concerns when designing new league content. We generally try to create content that doesn't require insane clear-speed. Of course, it is true that the faster you can complete an area and get its rewards, the faster you will progress, so there's an implicit incentive to making good (i.e. fast) characters."

Hey, Chris, your designers introduced Incursion and a decay mechanic in Synthesis. Stop talking such crap. The decay mechanic is not fast, but you can't play any sort of normal melee skill and enjoy the content. And incusions are crap to this day. I beat them fine, but I can see how the average player would hate hate them.

"This question also prompted a long discussion, which turned into a conversation about how people acquire specific maps for Atlas completion. Our current thoughts are that we could make this easier, and so we are considering adding an occasional chance for map bosses to drop a map from an adjacent location. If we go ahead with this in 3.7.0, you'll see it in the Patch Notes."

Translation - players are not engaging with bosses anymore except Atlas completion, so we are going to add some incentive to make them. We are not fixing map drops in any other way though, because now we want you to kill bosses again.

"Map bosses generally don't drop a lot of items relative to the rest of the map, but they also usually don't take a lot of time to fight. Some bosses die quickly, and others are more substantial fights. We are going to add extra monsters (that yield item and experience) to the substantial boss fights (during their mitigation phases) to make them worth the time of fighting them more. Examples of maps that have been modified in this way in 3.7.0 are Belfry, Lava Lake, Sunken City and Gardens. We'll keep propagating this to more maps over time."

Hey, Chris - players don't run the bosses because they are not worth the risk-reward. Add some incentives (loot, maps as above) and people will run them. Remove the death penalty (FYI I want it to stay, I am just saying) and people will run every boss. Also, fuck your mitigation phases right in the ass. Repeatedly. Fire the people who are designing immunity phases.

Okay I could go on but this is already too long.
 
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Warmuth

Warmuth

Molten Core Raider
869
493
Slaanesh69 said:
Well, trash me as you may, but I think Chris Wilson is officially out of touch with his game now. The GDC presentation showcased how GGG is chasing quick returns on quick turnaround leagues. I don't have a problem with their business model aside from the speed meta is not necessarily my thing, but it's their game so fill your boots.

His apology post was well said, but just a bunch of words. Damage control, mostly, for possibly the worst received league ever (even moreso than Bestiary? Incredible!) Time will tell if real improvements are made in the future, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

But reading that Q&A? Wilson is an idiot.



Hey, Chris - players don't run the bosses because they are not worth the risk-reward. Add some incentives (loot, maps as above) and people will run them. Remove the death penalty (FYI I want it to stay, I am just saying) and people will run every boss. Also, fuck your mitigation phases right in the ass. Repeatedly. Fire the people who are designing immunity phases.

Okay I could go on but this is already too long.
Click to expand...

Nothing is more satisfying than building up a character that essentially one shots a boss before the infuriating phase transition. Also nothing more rage inducing than they phase anyway. Shout out to the shaper cameos that everyone loves so much that it’s worth keeping it in. Give bosses a decent map drop rate and we’ll run them. Promise. We will still do shitty league mechanics and continue to not get good t3 temple rooms too.
 
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mkopec

mkopec

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I agree with the entire clear speed bullshit this game turned into. I have not played in a few leagues now but watching some streams here and there and yeah, its pretty bad. Playing some games like Grim Dawn and the new Epoch it was a nice change of pace and shows you how nice these games play a bit slower. Also, melee, yeah I agree with that too, melee is shit to play these days in POE. I hope the upcoming changes they promised to melee work out.

But fuck, what do I know? Im just an old man now, lol.
 
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C

Cynical

Canuckistani Terrorist
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Delve is already repetitive, even for a low depth scrub casual like myself. There's something about it that makes it fun anyway, unlimited, or more access would be better for me.

I started after Delve league, I feel like I missed out.

If I make a faceroll trapper, is that mini league thing still going? Can't imagine it take too long just to level 80+
 
Deathwing

Deathwing

<Bronze Donator>
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Just in case people weren't aware of this tool: poe.ninja

And that's not the only one, there are at least a few others that greatly facilitate buying maps. I didn't really look into them because I used poe.ninja maybe 3 times this league? Just to accelerate finishing my yellows, reds were too expensive so I did those the "hard" way.

What are you people doing to run out of maps? Are you using Zana 1c reroll up to T10? Are you using horizon orbs on reds? Are you scrubbing guardian maps from your atlas? I scrub T15s too, but this was my first league trying that and I'm not really sure it helped much since I never ran my shaped T15.

I ended the league with ~50 each of shaped Moon Temple and Elder UGS. Park an elder blob over UGS, slap 4 (non-shitty)sextants on UGS, chisel/alch/vaal(if shitty quant/pack), run Beyond if the map isn't Vaaled. Congratulations, you will have too many maps now. I put my T6-T13 maps up for sale because of how well the above was sustaining EUGS.

You WILL have to buy sextants and vaals. And likely chisels. The memory modifier for quality currency made them easy to sustain this league. But I only needed to reup on mapping supplies once this league before I hit 37 challenges. The atlas farming strat is almost superfluous unless you're REALLY playing for the long haul.
 
OU Ariakas

OU Ariakas

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I think that GGG is missing out on tons more casual spenders because they try too hard to satisfy their vocal hardcore base. I would classify myself as a step above casual but nowhere near hardcore that plays one build because I don't have enough money or gear to really get a high end build going. My favorite league *by FAR* was Delve because I was able to do something that I found fun that was also profitable enough to make me tons of currency which I then reinvested into better gear and even paid top currency for a totally different build because I had nothing else do to with all that sweet profit.

I was so excited for Delve's return because I really though that it would be the same mechanics but with many less people competing in the market since it was not the main league event. Then, for no real good reason, they announce sweeping changes that make Delve harder to run and less profitable unless you are willing to dedicate hardcore time to it. Incursion and now Syndicate have both gotten the same treatment and the huge question is simply why? Why make a ton of great ways to play the game on the players own terms with unique rewards and different ways to contribute to the overall economy and then put artificial roadblocks in front of those paths?

I am a customer that paid for the exact same thing most noobs pay for: stash tabs. They got their 40 bucks out of me and it was well worth it. However, the minute I started contemplating spending $30+ more dollars on the skill MTXs or armor sets I am reminded that I skipped Synthesis mainly because the mechanic looked complex from the beginning and I already knew that if I did not like it that I would not be able to fall back into Delve because of the arbitrary costs associated with actually having fun doing it. I know that some of you are going to say that it means that the game is not for me and that is fine. Just know that those kind of things make the game unpalatable to a much broader audience that would otherwise love the freedom to play an ARPG in one of five different specific ways.
 
mkopec

mkopec

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OU Ariakas said:
I think that GGG is missing out on tons more casual spenders because they try too hard to satisfy their vocal hardcore base. I would classify myself as a step above casual but nowhere near hardcore that plays one build because I don't have enough money or gear to really get a high end build going. My favorite league *by FAR* was Delve because I was able to do something that I found fun that was also profitable enough to make me tons of currency which I then reinvested into better gear and even paid top currency for a totally different build because I had nothing else do to with all that sweet profit.

I was so excited for Delve's return because I really though that it would be the same mechanics but with many less people competing in the market since it was not the main league event. Then, for no real good reason, they announce sweeping changes that make Delve harder to run and less profitable unless you are willing to dedicate hardcore time to it. Incursion and now Syndicate have both gotten the same treatment and the huge question is simply why? Why make a ton of great ways to play the game on the players own terms with unique rewards and different ways to contribute to the overall economy and then put artificial roadblocks in front of those paths?

I am a customer that paid for the exact same thing most noobs pay for: stash tabs. They got their 40 bucks out of me and it was well worth it. However, the minute I started contemplating spending $30+ more dollars on the skill MTXs or armor sets I am reminded that I skipped Synthesis mainly because the mechanic looked complex from the beginning and I already knew that if I did not like it that I would not be able to fall back into Delve because of the arbitrary costs associated with actually having fun doing it. I know that some of you are going to say that it means that the game is not for me and that is fine. Just know that those kind of things make the game unpalatable to a much broader audience that would otherwise love the freedom to play an ARPG in one of five different specific ways.
Click to expand...

This game has way worse things going wrong for it from a new/casual player perspective. It took me like 2-3 leagues to even learn basic shit about this game and not to brick a character and this included watching streamers and shit which I know most people dont do. This game is way to complex and its even getting more and more complex league by league when they add shit to it. There is huge bloat in this game. And while most hardcore PoE players dont even notice this shit, it is very apparent even if you skip a league or two and get back. Now granted, league shit is totally optional, but how are noobs supposed to know this?

I think them trying to outdo themselves each league really bloated this game with too many systems. They need to get back to basic league mechanics that are easy to learn and do right off the bat. Maybe add some end gamy type league shit for the hardcore, like more map type league shit, that will satisfy the hardcore but not bloat the 1-80 game for casuals.

Thats my feeling about it.
 
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Slaanesh69

Slaanesh69

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Due to the fact that I have played this game for so many years, I actually find it difficult to leave to play other games. Every time I start a complex game I just sigh and go back to PoE because I've already figured out all the complexity and play it on cruise control.

But if I played something else regularly and tried to pick up PoE new, I am sure I would quit to go back to the other game, because early PoE is fucking brutal to the uninitiated.

Last two weeks I've delved (haha) into Pagan Online (hate it), Last Epoch (enjoying it), Empyrion - Galactic Survival (old school, it is okay, nothing to rave about), and even Minecraft again with my son, with a Vikings texture pack. Just waiting on Friday to restart.
 
Thregin

Thregin

Blackwing Lair Raider
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my 2c on the casual v hardcore topic.

I dont think its that obvious that more casual players would be better than a bit fewer hardcore ones with their current ftp business model. I dont have any data obviously but perhaps the average guys spending 500 hours / league would spend more money than 5 guys spending 100h each or whatever time scales are applicable.

Theres certainly plenty of things they could do to make things easier to understand, and they should stay away from releasing leagues as bugged and headache inducing as synthesis but i must assume the drop rates for something as fundamental as maps somehow ties into their business model. If they thought upping map drops was an obvious good for the game finacially both short and long term why wouldnt they?
 
Borzak

Borzak

Bronze Baron of the Realm
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In the speech Chris gave last month(ish) he said he didn't want to run GGG that way in reference to people working a lot of overtime. OK I get that. But stop promising so much stuff that they obviously can't get to. Kind of like saying I don't want my company to work overtime, but we bid on a new multi billion dollar project for a few bridges and skycrappers, and we have 30 guys in the shop.
 
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C

Cynical

Canuckistani Terrorist
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Borzak said:
Kind of like saying I don't want my company to work overtime, but we bid on a new multi billion dollar project for a few bridges and skycrappers, and we have 30 guys in the shop.
Click to expand...
Whoa, hold on here, you telling me theres construction companies that don't do this? I'm always expected to keep OT to a minimum, train hordes of inexperienced people each season, and complete projects ahead of schedule and under budget. Where do I sign up??
 
Caeden

Caeden

Silver Baronet of the Realm
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Deathwing said:
Just in case people weren't aware of this tool: poe.ninja

And that's not the only one, there are at least a few others that greatly facilitate buying maps. I didn't really look into them because I used poe.ninja maybe 3 times this league? Just to accelerate finishing my yellows, reds were too expensive so I did those the "hard" way.

What are you people doing to run out of maps? Are you using Zana 1c reroll up to T10? Are you using horizon orbs on reds? Are you scrubbing guardian maps from your atlas? I scrub T15s too, but this was my first league trying that and I'm not really sure it helped much since I never ran my shaped T15.

I ended the league with ~50 each of shaped Moon Temple and Elder UGS. Park an elder blob over UGS, slap 4 (non-shitty)sextants on UGS, chisel/alch/vaal(if shitty quant/pack), run Beyond if the map isn't Vaaled. Congratulations, you will have too many maps now. I put my T6-T13 maps up for sale because of how well the above was sustaining EUGS.

You WILL have to buy sextants and vaals. And likely chisels. The memory modifier for quality currency made them easy to sustain this league. But I only needed to reup on mapping supplies once this league before I hit 37 challenges. The atlas farming strat is almost superfluous unless you're REALLY playing for the long haul.
Click to expand...
I never do the ultra version of this strat and i still manage to sustain just random 14-15 reds... I don't even keep great sextants all the time.

Anyway, if anyone has spare fragments, I'm doing Uber Elder tries...i've blown four sets and i'm getting them both to about 20%. I think I'm right there...just being sloppy. I'm doing Shaper deathless, so I know its just a matter of getting reps and getting the fight to "slow down" for me. This is my goal this league.

Also, you can keep him perpetually spawned right and run the Shaper t16 around him and so on?
 
AladainAF

AladainAF

Best Rabbit
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Can you comment on the state of spam bots in chat?

We are putting resources into this and while it appears from the outside that this is having no effect because there's still spam, we're stopping almost all of it and hope to improve it over time.
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Do you have a stash tab planned for fossils and resonators?

We plan to make fossils stack game-wide and then evaluate whether a tab is still needed. There are some small technical hurdles we need to first overcome before this stacking is possible.
Click to expand...

Weird, why stacking is not possible here. Probably because its an item that sockets into another, and those items are generally not stackable (eg: Skill gems). Probably some underlying code to tackle there.
 
Chris

Chris

Potato del Grande
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I think they fucked up the gems system which makes the mechanics harder to understand.

You have an ability you want to use and there are like 10 different passive gems which increase damage in subtly different ways that needs you to read some theorycraft to figure out the best combo.

Like, do you want attack speed or physical damage or elemental damage or burning damage or crit chance or crit damage or reduce aoe radius or what? Then how about converting that physical damage to fire damage... what the fuck? Oh and which aura/curse you want on top of that?

Stuff like multiple projectiles or spell echo or blood magic or piercing are the interesting effects you want, passive damage increases are boring and they need to get rid of ALL of them.

Then they keep adding new spells but I feel like things like different elemental arrows could be baked into one ability and linking an elemental gem changes the spell to the appropriate element version?

The depth is appreciated but I feel like there's a lot of complexity for complexity's sake and you just read some math guy's guide to navigate it. You don't do a Blizzard and realise this and replace the system with nothing though.
 
AladainAF

AladainAF

Best Rabbit
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Chris said:
You have an ability you want to use and there are like 10 different passive gems which increase damage in subtly different ways that needs you to read some theorycraft to figure out the best combo.
Click to expand...

This.

I still don't know the difference between:

+10% Spell Damage
+10% Lightning Damage
+10% Elemental Damage
+10% Damage

When talking about say, lightning damage. I mean, I know what each one -does- I just don't know how they all interact. You're right, there's a lot of complexity for complexities sake.
 
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