Pope Benedict XVI resigns

Falstaff

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To answer your question from the Political Thread, Jesuits are part of the Society of Jesus which is an order within the catholic church. It's not that they will care more about social justice than "catholics" because they are catholic, it's just that they are taught based on the teachings of St. Ignatius and he put a great emphasis on care of the poor and equality than other orders within the church. It's a pretty broad and vague statement for me to make, I admit, but there is some precedence in his religious upbringing to feel this way.

That's a really simple, dumbed down version, but essentially that's why I said what I said in the other thread.

Just read the wikipedia. I don't want to plagiarize.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesuit
 

fanaskin

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I went to an affluent Jesuit school, the Jesuits aren't the compassionate order in Catholicism, that belongs to the Franciscans.

the Jesuits are Literally the "soldiers of christ" they where formed by a soldier trying to destroy the protestant reformation, they also traveled to the 4 corners of the earth during the age of exploration to convert all the natives.

The jesuits are Also ruled by the Jesuit General or the "black pope" who a case could made are the ones who run the vatican, there have been stories for decades now that the Jesuits are a corrupting influence in the vatican, including a former roman jesuit who wrote several books on the topic.

Saint Ignatious of Loyala said "if you get them young enough the possibilities are endless"

translation: if you get people young enough you can get them to believe anything.


http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com.../blackpope.htm
The "Black" Pope
Count Hans Kolvenbach-The Jesuit's General

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Jesuit Oath in Spoiler

(Text of the Oath
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I_______________ , now in the presence of Almighty God, the blessed Virgin Mary, the blessed St. John the Baptist, the Holy Apostles, St. Peter and St. Paul, and all the saints, sacred host of Heaven, and to you, my Ghostly Father, the superior general of the Society of Jesus, founded by St. Ignatius Loyola, in the pontification of Paul the Third, and continued to the present, do by the womb of the Virgin, the matrix of God, and the rod of Jesus Christ, declare and swear that His Holiness, the Pope, is Christ's Vice-Regent and is the true and only head of the Catholic or Universal Church throughout the earth; and that by the virtue of the keys of binding and loosing given to His Holiness by my Saviour, Jesus Christ, he hath power to depose heretical Kings, Princes, States, Commonwealths, and Governments, and they may be safely destroyed. Therefore to the utmost of my power I will defend this doctrine and His Holiness's right and custom against all usurpers of the heretical or Protestant authority whatever, especially the Lutheran Church of Germany, Holland, Denmark, Sweden and Norway, and the now pretended authority and Churches of England and Scotland, and the branches of same now established in Ireland and on the continent of America and elsewhere and all adherents in regard that they may be usurped and heretical, opposing the sacred Mother Church of Rome. I do now denounce and disown any allegiance as due to any heretical king, prince or State, named Protestant or Liberal, or obedience to any of their laws, magistrates or officers. I do further declare the doctrine of the Churches of England and Scotland of the Calvinists, Huguenots, and others of the name of Protestants or Masons to be damnable, and they themselves to be damned who will not forsake the same. I do further declare that I will help, assist, and advise all or any of His Holiness's agents, in any place where I should be, in Switzerland, Germany, Holland, Ireland or America, or in any other kingdom or territory I shall come to, and do my utmost to extirpate the heretical Protestant or Masonic doctrines and to destroy all their pretended powers, legal or otherwise. I do further promise and declare that, notwithstanding, I am dispensed with to assume any religion heretical for the propagation of the Mother Church's interest; to keep secret and private all her agents' counsels from time to time, as they entrust me, and not to divulge, directly or indirectly, by word, writing or circumstances whatever; but to execute all that should be proposed, given in charge, or discovered unto me by you, my Ghostly Father, or any of this sacred order. I do further promise and declare that I will have no opinion or will of my own or any mental reservation whatever, even as a corpse or cadaver (perinde ac cadaver), but will unhesitatingly obey each and every command that I may receive from my superiors in the militia of the Pope and of Jesus Christ. That I will go to any part of the world whithersoever I may be sent, to the frozen regions north, jungles of India, to the centres of civilisation of Europe, or to the wild haunts of the barbarous savages of America without murmuring or repining, and will be submissive in all things, whatsoever is communicated to me.I do further promise and declare that I will, when opportunity presents, make and wage relentless war, secretly and openly, against all heretics, Protestants and Masons, as I am directed to do, to extirpate them from the face of the whole earth; and that I will spare neither age, sex nor condition, and that will hang, burn, waste, boil, flay, strangle, and bury alive these infamous heretics; rip up the stomachs and wombs of their women, and crush their infants' heads against the walls in order to annihilate their execrable race. That when the same cannot be done openly I will secretly use the poisonous cup, the strangulation cord, the steel of the poniard, or the leaden bullet, regardless of the honour, rank, dignity or authority of the persons, whatever may be their condition in life, either public or private, as I at any time may be directed so to do by any agents of the Pope or Superior of the Brotherhood of the Holy Father of the Society of Jesus.In confirmation of which I hereby dedicate my life, soul, and all corporal powers, and with the dagger which I now receive I will subscribe my name written in my blood in testimony thereof; and should I prove false, or weaken in my determination, may my brethren and fellow soldiers of the militia of the Pope cut off my hands and feet and my throat from ear to ear, my belly be opened and sulphur burned therein with all the punishment that can be inflicted upon me on earth, and my soul shall be tortured by demons in eternal hell forever. That I will in voting always vote for a Knight of Columbus in preference to a Protestant, especially a Mason, and that I will leave my party so to do; that if two Catholics are on the ticket I will satisfy myself which is the better supporter of Mother Church and vote accordingly. That I will not deal with or employ a Protestant if in my power to deal with or employ a Catholic. That I will place Catholic girls in Protestant families that a weekly report may be made of the inner movements of the heretics. That I will provide myself with arms and ammunition that I may be in readiness when the word is passed, or I am commanded to defend the Church either as an individual or with the militia of the Pope. All of which I,_______________, do swear by the blessed Trinity and blessed sacrament which I am now to receive to perform and on part to keep this my oath. In testimony hereof, I take this most holy and blessed sacrament of the Eucharist and witness the same further with my name written with the point of this dagger dipped in my own blood and seal in the face of this holy sacrament.

I remember the priest telling class that the Jesuits would get slapped across the face after taking the oath which has it's tradition to midievil times that bascially taking a beating would help you remember specific events, so when you where charged with remembering something like an oath it came with a beating.

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Randin

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Wasn't that the sect that travelled along the spanish conquistadores as they wiped out all the Indians and justified those actions?

Or is that just what I remember from Sid Meier's Colonization.

Seriously, any sources on what their stances towards the usual topics are?
I want to say it was either the Dominicans or Fransicans that were heavily involved in Spanish colonization, but don't quote me on that.

The Jesuits were heavily involved in the French colonies, however, and actually had a decent record of legit conversions of the natives compared to others, mostly because they were actually willing to learn native languages, and would integrate elements of their beliefs into Christianity, rather than trying to force them to give up their own faiths altogether.
 

Loser Araysar

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fanaskin for once is right.

Jesuits are best known for having top notch schools and being the most wealthy order of the Church. The local Jesuit high school in Chicago here has a tuition of $15K+ and that's for high school, not college.
 

Cantatus

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To be honest, the thing I find most surprising about this choice is that they went with another really old man. I remember looking up that most popes in the 20th century were in their mid-60s to early-70s when elected. Benedict, at 78, was a definite outlier, and it was suspected that he was chosen since they figured he wouldn't last long, giving them a breather after a semi-progressive pope that served for over 26 years. Pope Francis I, at 76, makes him the 9th oldest pope electedin modern times, and the 3rd oldest pope in the past 300 or so years.

They can't be counting on this guy sticking around for long, which makes me wonder if this was just their way of satisfying the fact that they haven't had a pope outside of Europe (or The Holy Roman Empire, if you include the few from North Africa), letting them get that out of the way so they can go back to the status quo, or if it's their way of bridging the gap so they can start having popes from outside of Europe. The guy is a born Argentinian, but of Italian descent, so he gets to be from another continent while ruffling as little feathers as possible, which makes the next pope to be elected from South America to possibly not be as big of a deal.
 

Loser Araysar

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I want to say it was either the Dominicans or Fransicans that were heavily involved in Spanish colonization, but don't quote me on that.

The Jesuits were heavily involved in the French colonies, however, and actually had a decent record of legit conversions of the natives compared to others, mostly because they were actually willing to learn native languages, and would integrate elements of their beliefs into Christianity, rather than trying to force them to give up their own faiths altogether.
Dominicans operated mostly in central America and American southwest, Franciscans operated in western South America (Inca lands), Jesuits operated in small enclaves in eastern South America (modern day Brazil) where the Portuguese settled.
 

Tuco

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Fanaskin, do the Jesuits/Catholics ever claim the Extreme Oath of the Jesuits or is that just some bullshit conspiracy theorists made up?
 

fanaskin

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Fanaskin, do the Jesuits/Catholics ever claim the Extreme Oath of the Jesuits or is that just some bullshit conspiracy theorists made up?
That's the version found in the Library of congress, I don't know if the Church has a version floating around, I'll do some digging.

I remember the priests alluding that the military nature of the oath was toned down at some point because they said at the end of the oath they used to draw blood instead of a slap on the face.

The jesuits are Catholics btw Tuco they are an "order", You can just call them "Jesuits" or "The Jesuit order"
 

Tuco

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fanaskin, I guess I'm more interested in whether Pope Francis I took this oath than whether jesuits used to take this oath.
 

Cantatus

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So how does this guy fit the pope prediction poem?
It's always easy to apply a prophecy in retrospect, especially when the prophecy is as vague and gives as few details as the Prophecy of the Popes does. How hard was it really to find some connection between Pope Benedict XVI and olives? Give it a few days, and someone will come up with somewhat plausible of a way of tying Pope Francis I to it. I suspect the fact that he's of Italian descent, despite being from Argentina, will make it easier to connect him to being "Peter the Roman".
 

OneofOne

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Fanaskin is pulling more conspiracy bullshit. Yes that's in the Library of Congress. You too, for filling out a form and paying $30 can submit anything you want and have it in the Library of Congress.
 

Falstaff

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Yeah, I can't believe you asked fanaskin of all people to confirm/deny a conspiracy theory
 

fanaskin

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How big was that wave exactly?
http://southernnationalist.com/blog/...in-the-USA.jpg


not numbers but an ancestry map. I think a large wave of germans came over more ultimatly because of the reformation than anything else, Remember America is the land of the protestants, as well America was not looked at and still isn't looked at in the same light as europe, the odds of a US pope where slim to none.


The germans and english used to have a conspiracy fear the irish and the italians where forced here by the church to take america over