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Kill All the White People
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Got a hold of some Keflex. Maybe she's just got a UTi. What's the worst that happens, my dog dies? Doesn't seem like it, but it ain't like trying costs me anything, so fuck it.

Sure am glad I'm not in a situation where a few hundred bucks here and there bothers me. Know enough pet owners and everyone's got a stash of leftover pet meds for various shit. Community pharmacy.
 
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Sanrith Descartes

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alright, I will make an exception for blue buffalo. Seems to be alright, we fed both cats that stuff and they are okay too. But, after this 12 year experiment, I can safely conclude raw is the way. Her dinner has one fucking ingredient - Chicken. Her breakfast has one ingredient - pig. You'd do it for you, do it for them.
I agree with the raw diet being number 1. We did research and opted for the grain free BB. Have no complaints besides the price.
 

Sanrith Descartes

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Got a hold of some Keflex. Maybe she's just got a UTi. What's the worst that happens, my dog dies? Doesn't seem like it, but it ain't like trying costs me anything, so fuck it.

Sure am glad I'm not in a situation where a few hundred bucks here and there bothers me. Know enough pet owners and everyone's got a stash of leftover pet meds for various shit. Community pharmacy.
I agree. Considering the ultimate alternative at the end of the road, try everything that doesn't hurt her quality of life or cause pain/discomfort.
 

Cutlery

Kill All the White People
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I agree. Considering the ultimate alternative at the end of the road, try everything that doesn't hurt her quality of life or cause pain/discomfort.

Fuck it, maybe she got covid, throw some ivermectin in there too!
 
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Control

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I agree with the raw diet being number 1. We did research and opted for the grain free BB. Have no complaints besides the price.
Have any good sites with info on whole foods versus kibble by chance? We've always tried to feed our pup grain-free, beef-based stuff, but our only local spot keeps discontinuing the brands. They're dropping BB, so we were looking for an alternative this weekend and I thought we could basically feed him ground beef and eggs for what the higher end food costs now.
 

Sanrith Descartes

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Have any good sites with info on whole foods versus kibble by chance? We've always tried to feed our pup grain-free, beef-based stuff, but our only local spot keeps discontinuing the brands. They're dropping BB, so we were looking for an alternative this weekend and I thought we could basically feed him ground beef and eggs for what the higher end food costs now.
I have found BB at a surprising number of common places. Walmart, Shoprite, BJs etc. They won't have all the variations like PetSmart/PetCo but it's pretty easy to find. Also mail order the big bags from Chewy etc also works pretty well

Honestly I have looked into the non-kibble stuff in years. Someone else might know better than me.
 
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Cutlery

Kill All the White People
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Have any good sites with info on whole foods versus kibble by chance? We've always tried to feed our pup grain-free, beef-based stuff, but our only local spot keeps discontinuing the brands. They're dropping BB, so we were looking for an alternative this weekend and I thought we could basically feed him ground beef and eggs for what the higher end food costs now.

I have a great book, Raw & Natural Nutrition for Dogs by Lew Olson that goes into it in great detail.

Cliff notes -

A dog's food spends a lot of time in their stomach (exposed to the acid), very little time in their intestines. This is reverse of humans, and this basically means, they can eat almost whatever the fuck they want and it's gonna be fine. Almost unheard of for a dog to get salmonella, it just can't survive in their stomach long enough to get picked up by the intestines.

Dogs only need protein. They have zero use for carbs. Dogs with carb heavy diets have very large shits because they don't typically digest them.

There is no point where they can get too much protein. Just feed it, they will use it all.

Dogs require all amino acids. Pork, Chicken and beef all contain partial amounts of amino acids. In order to get all 22, they need to have a varied diet, so you can't just feed them all chicken or all beef all the time.

Dogs require organ meat to get the rest of their nutritional needs. If you can feed kidneys and hearts and whatnot, that's fantastic. Beef kidneys fucking reek, so I stopped doing them. If you can't acquire easy exotic organ meat, (check your local asian market, those fucking weirdos have everything) just feed beef liver once a week. That's easy enough to find almost everywhere.

The only protein that contains all 22 amino acids is eggs. Unfortunately, feeding these past the puppy stage will almost certainly involve your dog engaging in chemical warfare on you.

Whole bones are essential to provide the calcium the dogs need, so don't shy away from those. They also clean their teeth (which is why most dogs have rancid breath...kibble doesn't clean anything). However, once a dog gets to 4 or 5 years old, their jaws can actually become stronger than their teeth. Don't feed beef bones past this stage. I found out the hard way as Zel broke a couple teeth on marrow bones. She fucking loved them, and they kept her busy for hours, but she is a very determined dog, and a little thing like a broken tooth ain't gonna stop her. RAW chicken bones are absolutely fine, despite what anyone who thinks they know better will tell you (do not feed cooked), and pork bones are typically not strong enough to pose a problem.

Puppies will need about 3%-5% of their body weight every day in meat. Adult dogs closer to 1-1.5%

My dog eats zero carbs, zero grain, has never eaten any kibble from anywhere at all. She actually doesn't know what to do with it, because it smells like food, but does not taste like food (they spray kibble with fat so dogs will eat it). She eats pork necks for breakfast ($1.79/lb), and chicken quarters for dinner ($0.89/lb). Once a week she gets a can of salmon for her coat, and once a week a pound of beef liver. She eats about 1.5lbs a day, all told, slightly under $2 averaged across the whole week. Considering the price of commercial dog food, and the quality difference, even if I'm not coming out ahead on price (which I probably am), I still come out ahead on nutrition. If you need a natural anti-inflammatory, fish oil is cheap and great for their coat and minor aches and pains.
 
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Control

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I have a great book, Raw & Natural Nutrition for Dogs by Lew Olson that goes into it in great detail.

Cliff notes -

A dog's food spends a lot of time in their stomach (exposed to the acid), very little time in their intestines. This is reverse of humans, and this basically means, they can eat almost whatever the fuck they want and it's gonna be fine. Almost unheard of for a dog to get salmonella, it just can't survive in their stomach long enough to get picked up by the intestines.

Dogs only need protein. They have zero use for carbs. Dogs with carb heavy diets have very large shits because they don't typically digest them.

There is no point where they can get too much protein. Just feed it, they will use it all.

Dogs require all amino acids. Pork, Chicken and beef all contain partial amounts of amino acids. In order to get all 22, they need to have a varied diet, so you can't just feed them all chicken or all beef all the time.

Dogs require organ meat to get the rest of their nutritional needs. If you can feed kidneys and hearts and whatnot, that's fantastic. Beef kidneys fucking reek, so I stopped doing them. If you can't acquire easy exotic organ meat, (check your local asian market, those fucking weirdos have everything) just feed beef liver once a week. That's easy enough to find almost everywhere.

The only protein that contains all 22 amino acids is eggs. Unfortunately, feeding these past the puppy stage will almost certainly involve your dog engaging in chemical warfare on you.

Whole bones are essential to provide the calcium the dogs need, so don't shy away from those. They also clean their teeth (which is why most dogs have rancid breath...kibble doesn't clean anything). However, once a dog gets to 4 or 5 years old, their jaws can actually become stronger than their teeth. Don't feed beef bones past this stage. I found out the hard way as Zel broke a couple teeth on marrow bones. She fucking loved them, and they kept her busy for hours, but she is a very determined dog, and a little thing like a broken tooth ain't gonna stop her. RAW chicken bones are absolutely fine, despite what anyone who thinks they know better will tell you (do not feed cooked), and pork bones are typically not strong enough to pose a problem.

Puppies will need about 3%-5% of their body weight every day in meat. Adult dogs closer to 1-1.5%

My dog eats zero carbs, zero grain, has never eaten any kibble from anywhere at all. She actually doesn't know what to do with it, because it smells like food, but does not taste like food (they spray kibble with fat so dogs will eat it). She eats pork necks for breakfast ($1.79/lb), and chicken quarters for dinner ($0.89/lb). Once a week she gets a can of salmon for her coat, and once a week a pound of beef liver. She eats about 1.5lbs a day, all told, slightly under $2 averaged across the whole week. Considering the price of commercial dog food, and the quality difference, even if I'm not coming out ahead on price (which I probably am), I still come out ahead on nutrition. If you need a natural anti-inflammatory, fish oil is cheap and great for their coat and minor aches and pains.
Thanks for all the info! Just grabbed the book. And ya, looks like that would end up being cheaper than the high-end kibble now, not that cost is the driver, but if it's going to be healthier and cheaper too, hard to argue
 

Cutlery

Kill All the White People
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Thanks for all the info! Just grabbed the book. And ya, looks like that would end up being cheaper than the high-end kibble now, not that cost is the driver, but if it's going to be healthier and cheaper too, hard to argue

It was actually always cheaper than high end kibble. When she was a pup, pork necks were 99 centa and chicken quarters/legs/drums were 79 cents at Costco.

I think you're gonna always come out ahead doing it yourself. A lot of people think it's a ton of work, but it's actually not. Buy a 10lb bag of chicken quarters, put them in gallon bags, throw them in the freezer, and one in the fridge. When you're down to one quarter in the fridge, pull another out of the freezer. There's probably 5 minutes of prep for me every 2 weeks to feed an 80lb dog.
 
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Julian The Apostate

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I have a great book, Raw & Natural Nutrition for Dogs by Lew Olson that goes into it in great detail.

Cliff notes -

A dog's food spends a lot of time in their stomach (exposed to the acid), very little time in their intestines. This is reverse of humans, and this basically means, they can eat almost whatever the fuck they want and it's gonna be fine. Almost unheard of for a dog to get salmonella, it just can't survive in their stomach long enough to get picked up by the intestines.

Dogs only need protein. They have zero use for carbs. Dogs with carb heavy diets have very large shits because they don't typically digest them.

There is no point where they can get too much protein. Just feed it, they will use it all.

Dogs require all amino acids. Pork, Chicken and beef all contain partial amounts of amino acids. In order to get all 22, they need to have a varied diet, so you can't just feed them all chicken or all beef all the time.

Dogs require organ meat to get the rest of their nutritional needs. If you can feed kidneys and hearts and whatnot, that's fantastic. Beef kidneys fucking reek, so I stopped doing them. If you can't acquire easy exotic organ meat, (check your local asian market, those fucking weirdos have everything) just feed beef liver once a week. That's easy enough to find almost everywhere.

The only protein that contains all 22 amino acids is eggs. Unfortunately, feeding these past the puppy stage will almost certainly involve your dog engaging in chemical warfare on you.

Whole bones are essential to provide the calcium the dogs need, so don't shy away from those. They also clean their teeth (which is why most dogs have rancid breath...kibble doesn't clean anything). However, once a dog gets to 4 or 5 years old, their jaws can actually become stronger than their teeth. Don't feed beef bones past this stage. I found out the hard way as Zel broke a couple teeth on marrow bones. She fucking loved them, and they kept her busy for hours, but she is a very determined dog, and a little thing like a broken tooth ain't gonna stop her. RAW chicken bones are absolutely fine, despite what anyone who thinks they know better will tell you (do not feed cooked), and pork bones are typically not strong enough to pose a problem.

Puppies will need about 3%-5% of their body weight every day in meat. Adult dogs closer to 1-1.5%

My dog eats zero carbs, zero grain, has never eaten any kibble from anywhere at all. She actually doesn't know what to do with it, because it smells like food, but does not taste like food (they spray kibble with fat so dogs will eat it). She eats pork necks for breakfast ($1.79/lb), and chicken quarters for dinner ($0.89/lb). Once a week she gets a can of salmon for her coat, and once a week a pound of beef liver. She eats about 1.5lbs a day, all told, slightly under $2 averaged across the whole week. Considering the price of commercial dog food, and the quality difference, even if I'm not coming out ahead on price (which I probably am), I still come out ahead on nutrition. If you need a natural anti-inflammatory, fish oil is cheap and great for their coat and minor aches and pains.
Great post, thanks for taking the time to do that. Do you feed them the beef liver raw?
 

Cutlery

Kill All the White People
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Great post, thanks for taking the time to do that. Do you feed them the beef liver raw?

I feed everything raw. You don't need to cook for your dog. I just fed her a slab of beef liver this morning because she fucking loves it, and if she is going out, she deserves a good last few meals.

You can feed eggs whole in the shell too. They will crunch them straight down.
 
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Cutlery

Kill All the White People
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She made it to 12. 12 years old today. Me getting up twice a night to take her out or the antibiotics have solved the trouble of me mopping. Pretty sure she was old enough to remember snow before it all melted as a puppy, then thought it was the greatest thing ever when it came back when she was almost a year old, because she's still happy as shit every time it snows.
 
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Cutlery

Kill All the White People
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I'm at a complete fucking loss.

So, tried a week's run of antibiotics, and honestly, it felt like she was getting worse. She didn't wanna move, wasn't interested in eating, shitting sideways. Okay, fine, antibiotics are usually hard on the stomach. Also, she was still pissing herself after a week, which isn't typically how that shit would go. If she had a UTI, by day 3 or 4, that problem would be cleared up pretty good, and there might be some lingering bacteria somewhere, but she would be feeling and doing much better. So, on Monday, i discontinued the antibiotics, got her some probiotics to help her stomach, and then I started looking into how I was gonna go from here. There's some places that will come to your house and do the deed and haul the dog away. Honestly, sounds better because she hates car rides and doesn't particularly like the vet, and I don't want her last moments to be shitty and stressed, that sounds fucking awful. But, we're not there yet....we've just got a dog that is pissing herself occasionally. So, I'm getting up every 3 hours at night to let her out, I'm coming home at lunch time to let her out, basically doing everything I can to make this a lot more comfortable for her, but I know this isn't gonna last forever. So, picked up some dog diapers off Chewy for the times when I absolutely need some sleep, or when I absolutely cannot make it home to take care of her. Tuesday night we put one on her for...no shit, all of 35 seconds. Dog was just dejected, sat down, refused to move. Absolutely defeated. We took it off and made a big deal out of it and figured "Okay, we'll get her used to these slowly and just go from there."

Not a single fucking problem since that moment. Literally not a drop. Either the antibiotics took a week to kick in and solved it right at that moment (which isn't how I've seen antibiotics work), or she took one look at her life with that diaper on and said "Absolutely fucking not" and just somehow thru sheer force of will decided that's not the life she wants to live.

I mean, I'm ecstatic that things are back to semi normal and I just have an old dog, but seriously...what the fuck.
 
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Gask

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It's not the first recall from Purina that I can remember.
Nestlé Purina PetCare Company is voluntarily recalling select lots of Purina Pro Plan Veterinary Diets EL Elemental (PPVD EL) prescription dry dog food due to potentially elevated levels of vitamin D.

Vitamin D is an essential nutrient for dogs; however, ingestion of elevated levels can lead to health issues depending on the level of vitamin D and the length of exposure. Vitamin D toxicity may include vomiting, loss of appetite, increased thirst, increased urination, and excessive drooling to renal (kidney) dysfunction.

Purina is taking this action after receiving two contacts about two separate confirmed cases of a dog exhibiting signs of vitamin D toxicity after consuming the diet, to date. Once taken off the diet, each of these dogs recovered.

The affected dry dog food was distributed throughout the United States by prescription only through veterinary clinics, Purina Vet Direct, Purina for Professionals, and other select retailers with the ability to validate a prescription.

Pet owners who purchased bags of the product listed above are asked to immediately stop feeding and throw it away in a container where no other animals, including wildlife, can get to it. If signs such as weight loss, excessive drooling, vomiting, loss of appetite or increased thirst or urination have occurred in their dog while eating this diet, pet owners should contact their veterinarian.
 

Cutlery

Kill All the White People
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Well, literally zero idea what was going on with my dog. Best i can figure it that she really did hurt herself pretty badly falling on the stairs and that just took awhile to work itself out. Now she's gone from pissing every 3 hours to it being only an issue if it's more than 6 (so, literally just a normal old dog). Her mood has improved, her energy has improved and now she's back to just being an old dog.

Fucking German shepherds are so stoic that they can literally be on deaths door and they refuse to complain about it.
 
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