Unfortunately the math unfolds fairly elegantly and makes accurate predictions.
Science!! Fucking magnets, how do they work?
- Thread starter Flunklesnarkin_sl
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Not to mention, it makes sense that things of the very large and of the very small should not act as Newtonian as Schrodinger's cat and its box do. Previous generations had no ability to speak of black holes or time dilation. Why would we think they would have any sort of grasp on uncertainty or wave-particle duality?
khalid
Unelected Mod
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I have mentioned this before, but if you have an interest in scientific paradigms, the reach of human knowledge or how to make sense of quantum mechanics, do yourself a favor and read or listen to:
The Beginning of Infinity: Explanations That Transform the World: David Deutsch: 9780143121350: Amazon.com: Books
Sam Harris had him on, but the podcast really doesn't even scratch the surface.
The Beginning of Infinity: Explanations That Transform the World: David Deutsch: 9780143121350: Amazon.com: Books
Sam Harris had him on, but the podcast really doesn't even scratch the surface.
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Is that the guy who Sam jokingly accused of "noticing my wife's equations"? That was great. Probably his best podcast yet. I'll definitely have to check his book out some day.
Jive Turkey
Karen
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khalid
Unelected Mod
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Ahh, thewisdom of Deepak Chopra.
"Information is at the heart of subjective timelessness"
"The future meditates on your own brightness"
"The Higgs boson is mirrored in total love"
"Information is at the heart of subjective timelessness"
"The future meditates on your own brightness"
"The Higgs boson is mirrored in total love"
Jive Turkey
Karen
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There was discussion on this either in this thread or on another forum quite a while ago. It's still fringe and it still seems like trying to shoehorn quantum weirdness into macroscopic phenomena. There are literally quantum events happening in everything. It's like saying my car works because of quantum mechanics
Mudcrush Durtfeet
Hungry Ogre
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Everything works by quantum mechanics, among other things. But yeah, generally not on the macro scale.
iannis
Musty Nester
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in a way no, in a way yes. Constituent parts matter to the whole.
The assertion itself is unprovable, but I suppose it is interesting in a way. If matter was ordered differently, consciousness would be different. Well, I mean, yeah... sure.
But more than that small affects can have large effects on systems, and you could even switch the aff/eff and still have it be situationally true. That's one of the underpinnings of a modern understanding of biology. So it's not completely insane or a completely empty thought.
But cataloguing the complexity of that idea is well beyond us and will be for hundreds of years. If not thousands. It's like predicting the weather. I think you could, if you had perfect information.
You will never have perfect information. And the really startling bit about QM, even weirder than the run of the mill weird shit, seems to be the insinuation that perfect informationmight not even exist.
The assertion itself is unprovable, but I suppose it is interesting in a way. If matter was ordered differently, consciousness would be different. Well, I mean, yeah... sure.
But more than that small affects can have large effects on systems, and you could even switch the aff/eff and still have it be situationally true. That's one of the underpinnings of a modern understanding of biology. So it's not completely insane or a completely empty thought.
But cataloguing the complexity of that idea is well beyond us and will be for hundreds of years. If not thousands. It's like predicting the weather. I think you could, if you had perfect information.
You will never have perfect information. And the really startling bit about QM, even weirder than the run of the mill weird shit, seems to be the insinuation that perfect informationmight not even exist.
pharmakos
soʞɐɯɹɐɥd
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The whole "consciousness comes from QM" thing is just people attempting to explain the unknown via a different mystery... Much akin to "because God" from centuries past.
They might be right but the theory is based on a hunch rather than any direct evidence, and so belongs a lot more to philosophical debate than it does scientific debate. So someone like Sam Harris will never consider it.
And that's okay.
They might be right but the theory is based on a hunch rather than any direct evidence, and so belongs a lot more to philosophical debate than it does scientific debate. So someone like Sam Harris will never consider it.
And that's okay.
Intrinsic
Person of Whiteness
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I've never listened to or read Sam Harris (or Deutsch), but listened to this while driving around today. There is some next level shit going on here. Philosophy and Critical Thinking at this level are mind bottling. I did read The Blank Slate based off someone's recommendation here (maybe AngryGerbil?) so have some light familiarity with Pinker. But Jesus man, this rabbit hole goes deep and after an hour my brain hurts trying to process this stuff. In a good way though.
BrutulTM
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I've had Schrodinger's cat explained to me at least 5 times and it sounded like nonsense every time. They conclusion I drew is that understanding of quantum physics is unnecessary for me to live a full life and I am going forward with this assumption.
Ukerric
Bearded Ape
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That's mostly because it is counter-intuitive at multiple levels. But, as others pointed, we're equipped by evolution to make sense of life in the african savannah, not the core aspects of physics.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped....ogv.480p.webm
That's a pretty damn good explanation of what's going on behind Schrodinger's Cat.
That's a pretty damn good explanation of what's going on behind Schrodinger's Cat.
pharmakos
soʞɐɯɹɐɥd
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then you actually did understand it -- its supposed to sound like nonsense.
Furry
WoW Office
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I've covered this before. There's two theories about why the math behind quantum mechanics work. The first theory is that the math is the best estimation of the systems, and that with a better understanding of the systems the inaccuracies and randomness APPEARANCE to it would eventually be entirely eliminated. Einstein and schrodinger with their thought experiments argued for this belief. Essentially, the math and the randomness in it is a artifact of us not being scientifically advanced enough to figure out the finer details yet.
The second, the one pushed by fields such as quantum entanglement is that the math is ACTUALLY HOW THE SYSTEMS WORK. The randomness is part of nature and the knowledge can not be refined ever. It's basically a silly and childish principal that because we haven't been able to discover more yet, we obviously know how everything works already.
I think the second view is absolutely retarded, and I at every chance argue against proponents of it, such as troll.
The second, the one pushed by fields such as quantum entanglement is that the math is ACTUALLY HOW THE SYSTEMS WORK. The randomness is part of nature and the knowledge can not be refined ever. It's basically a silly and childish principal that because we haven't been able to discover more yet, we obviously know how everything works already.
I think the second view is absolutely retarded, and I at every chance argue against proponents of it, such as troll.
Jive Turkey
Karen
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How is it anymore childish than thinking the results are not what you think ought to be, so you discount them entirely? This seems like the ultimate "the science is still out" argument that the anti-GMO crowd fall back on. It's an entirely emotional argument
Furry
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What does anything I say have to do with discounting results? In both scenarios, people agree that the math works. One just contends that its logically absurd to think that because we can model reality with the math, that the universe actually works exactly the same way as the math, rather than the math being our closest estimate... Especially since most math in quantum mechanics is essentially estimated chances.