Shadow and Bone

Lithose

Lithose

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Watched the first episode and half the second so far. Its decent. It strays very close to the CW vibe sometimes (Not a good thing), especially whenever the b-plot is on the screen (The little gang). The people in the b-plot are too made up...if that makes sense? I don't know how to describe it well, but their costumes and make up is too artificial feeling. They really do feel like they are out of a CW teen-soap opera show. I get that they seem to be going for this because that town seems like a 'wealthy' hub and all--but combined with the less than stellar, overly dramatic acting and you're not getting a very compelling B plot.

However, A plot is really well done. Main character chick seems decent. Grisha lore and the tear or whatever is interesting. And its clear Netflix, despite how b-plot looks, is not actually being cheap about production. The production values are pretty crazy.

That all said though, some of this show is confusing...Why are Grisha feared so much in combat? They didn't seem to do any better than a few riflemen. If anything, those stupid little hand gestures make them slower and more vulnerable than a guy with a rifle would be. Like that dark 'blade' the 'darkness' guy used looked cool...but it took like 10 seconds to form it--someone could have shot him like 10 times if they wanted. I get these people being feared in every-day life because it would be like they are armed at all times. But on a battlefield?

Any case, has been enjoyable so far. But hopefully a few of these elements get polished up by later in the season, and it will go from being okay to good. (Not going to hold my breath given its a YA though)
 
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LachiusTZ

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Sounds like some rehashed themes and woke as fuck.
 
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Ishad

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Lithose said:
Watched the first episode and half the second so far. Its decent. It strays very close to the CW vibe sometimes (Not a good thing), especially whenever the b-plot is on the screen (The little gang). The people in the b-plot are too made up...if that makes sense? I don't know how to describe it well, but their costumes and make up is too artificial feeling. They really do feel like they are out of a CW teen-soap opera show. I get that they seem to be going for this because that town seems like a 'wealthy' hub and all--but combined with the less than stellar, overly dramatic acting and you're not getting a very compelling B plot.

However, A plot is really well done. Main character chick seems decent. Grisha lore and the tear or whatever is interesting. And its clear Netflix, despite how b-plot looks, is not actually being cheap about production. The production values are pretty crazy.

That all said though, some of this show is confusing...Why are Grisha feared so much in combat? Like they didn't seem to do any better than a few riflemen. If anything, those stupid little hand gestures make them slower and more vulnerable than a guy with a rifle would be. Like that dark 'blade' the 'darkness' guy used looked cool...but it took like 10 seconds to form it--someone could have shot him like 10 times if they wanted. I mean, I get these people being feared in every-day life because it would be like they are armed at all times. But on a battlefield?

Any case, has been enjoyable so far. But hopefully a few of these elements get polished up by later in the season, and it will go from being okay to good. (Not going to hold my breath given its a YA though)
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It gets mentioned later in the show that as weapons tech has improved (guns/repeating rifles) Grisha’s combat value relative to regular soldiers has gone done significantly
 
Mahes

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Actually Jesper Fahey(Kit Young) is one of the strongest characters just for his ability to draw a weapon faster than any of the Grisha's can react. Its why he gets respect from those who know him. The show is well done but there are some unexplained plot holes.

As stated earlier, the show does very little to discuss how amplifiers work. It just makes the magic stronger but it appears to vary and the items also appear to allow for control of the magic. I am hoping season 2 delves into the amplifiers a lot more.

Why exactly is General Kirigan Immortal? Why does he not age? Also he seems to be indestructible but there was a scene from his early life that made it appear as though he needed the healing abilities of his girlfriend at the time to stay alive while getting shot. It would have made since if his strength and mortality related directly with the wall he created. It would explain why he truly did not want it destroyed. Maybe that is what is happening but it does not convey well.

The darkness itself has demons that are apparently the army transforrmed. Are they also indestructible? You see them getting vaporized by sunlight. If not indestructible, then thier numbers are limited. Why not just hunt them all down and be done with it. Yes people will die or you could just use traps to kill them. After a few years of doing this the darkness might be nothing more than...darkness. Now if it were me, I would mention how the darkness can split the soul into many pieces creating more than just one demon and even some demons whose power has not been seen. I might even mention something to the effect of how as long as the wall remains, it becomes its own life force seperate from that which created it. Slowly it is becoming stronger adding a sense of urgency to its need to be destroyed. The story really could have better focus
 
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Khane

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Lithose said:
That all said though, some of this show is confusing...Why are Grisha feared so much in combat? They didn't seem to do any better than a few riflemen. If anything, those stupid little hand gestures make them slower and more vulnerable than a guy with a rifle would be. Like that dark 'blade' the 'darkness' guy used looked cool...but it took like 10 seconds to form it--someone could have shot him like 10 times if they wanted. I get these people being feared in every-day life because it would be like they are armed at all times. But on a battlefield?
Click to expand...

As said above technology has caught up to Grisha powers over time. Grisha have existed for centuries, guns only a short while.

Everything regarding the "small science" Grisha use is wildly inconsistent and often even contradictory to previous statements made by the characters in the show and I assume a lot of it is done simply to look cool. They amped up the production value for this show and I'm guessing they just wanted to show off their effects as much as they could.

The show doesn't get better, but it doesn't get worse and there is some interesting world building and good acting.

Also, what you are calling the B gang end up being some of the most compelling characters in the show.
 
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Aldarion

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Animosity said:
So many dumb shortside takes from people. Comparing a book for teenagers in a fantasy world to a real life historical setting is stupid. They werent forcing some "i am womyn" narrative at all, the main character just happens to be female. People getting upset over a gay guy in 2021 is fucking laughable. It was one scene.

It was a fun show and I liked the steampunk world. I hope they make a season 2. The villain was super lame and predictable. Felt like a shitty Voldemort. That was the only thing I would complain about.
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To be clear, since several people have misinterpreted it, my comment wasnt about the existence of a gay guy. It was that everywhere he goes he magically encounters other gays.

When he's not boning random stableboys (cause in the real world a large percentage of random stableboys are gay, thats very realistic) he's a great character. Its not about "one gay guy". Its about inserting gayness - the gay identity, the public "look at me I am gay" thing -- which is entirely specific to the western world in the shitty modern era -- into other settings where it doesnt belong or fit.

Your comment was perfect. "Upset over a gay guy in 2021". No, it would make perfect sense if this was set in 2021 in the modern western world. thats the whole point of my comment.

Stories that arent set in the modern era in the western world shouldnt import shit that is specific to that era. Gayness is no different than a smartphone. Doesnt fucking belong there.
 
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Khane

Khane

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What do you mean "everywhere he goes he encounters gays"? What show did you watch?

Complaining that a fantasy world that is not set on earth and isn't an historical piece is somehow definitely some version of "gayness is a disease" era earth with all the same politics, but also guns and magic, is certainly a hot take.
 
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Cybsled

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No shit, that’s like complaining that Avatar the Last Airbender is historically inaccurate lol

I used to work with this dude forever ago that had some sort of mental thing where he literally could not enjoy any fantasy setting in a game or film because it didn’t match up with reality. Because it didn’t make sense based on the hard coded rules of reality he was familiar with
 
kaid

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Ishad said:
It gets mentioned later in the show that as weapons tech has improved (guns/repeating rifles) Grisha’s combat value relative to regular soldiers has gone done significantly
Click to expand...
Yup its brought up explicitly as scary as grisha are they are much better at covert ops/support roles than combat because if you have to stand out in the open waving your arms to kill a few dudes the guy 1k yards out with a machine gun kinda trumps you hard.
 
kaid

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Cybsled said:
No shit, that’s like complaining that Avatar the Last Airbender is historically inaccurate lol

I used to work with this dude forever ago that had some sort of mental thing where he literally could not enjoy any fantasy setting in a game or film because it didn’t match up with reality. Because it didn’t make sense based on the hard coded rules of reality he was familiar with
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Hell even look at earth. There were large swaths of civilization where being gay was not an aberration but the norm. For a long long time you got married to a woman to produce kids but that was a purely business transaction and their actual lovers were generally other men.

On the woke scale this show was pretty mild.
 
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Aldarion

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lol no, gay identity is an invention of the 21st century west.

But thats fine, we can agree to disagree. For the record I don't find the show woke at all, aside from the silly "look theres gays everywhere cause thats normal" thing. Low on the woke scale overall.
 
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kaid

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Aldarion said:
lol no, gay identity is an invention of the 21st century west.

But thats fine, we can agree to disagree. For the record I don't find the show woke at all, aside from the silly "look theres gays everywhere cause thats normal" thing. Low on the woke scale overall.
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I am pretty sure the romans and greeks would strongly disagree with that. Most of the anti gay stuff came from the jewish and christian blow back over the behaviors of the roman occupiers.
 
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Seananigans

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Lithose said:
Watched the first episode and half the second so far. Its decent. It strays very close to the CW vibe sometimes (Not a good thing), especially whenever the b-plot is on the screen (The little gang). The people in the b-plot are too made up...if that makes sense?
Click to expand...

Makes perfect sense to me. The sneaky thief-ninja chick having a hijab styled headwrap be her identity-concealing sneak-wear of choice just slapped me in the face with how fucking stupid it was.
 
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Aldarion said:
lol no, gay identity is an invention of the 21st century west.

But thats fine, we can agree to disagree. For the record I don't find the show woke at all, aside from the silly "look theres gays everywhere cause thats normal" thing. Low on the woke scale overall.
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Gay identity in the modern sense, sure. It's a more modern innovation. But so is the idea of man-women relationships being somehow the "default", the "norm" or "nature" prescribed by god and/or a natural order. As is the concept of mostly christian-inspired monogamy, which for example in the roman empire only started to appear at about the second century B.C. as it turned more and more into jesus-worshippers.


It's not hard to find plentiful sources, accounts, literature, love poems, diaries, etc.. at least for the more literate pre-christian societies such as ancient rome, greece, eqypt, china, etc.. to confirm this. I.e. ancient roman sexual "identity" and "common practices" aren't any less known to us than their military tactics, politics, etc.. .
 
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Seananigans

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Aldarion said:
lol no, gay identity is an invention of the 21st century west.

But thats fine, we can agree to disagree. For the record I don't find the show woke at all, aside from the silly "look theres gays everywhere cause thats normal" thing. Low on the woke scale overall.
Click to expand...

I fully expect season 2 to ratchet it up a few notches. Shows always do this, when they don't go full-woke right out of the gate.
 
Kiki

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Was watchable, the biggest disappointment was that the chick playing Nina Zenik didn't take her tits out after showing them off.
 
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kaid

kaid

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Zweischneid said:
Gay identity in the modern sense, sure. It's a more modern innovation. But so is the idea of man-women relationships being somehow the "default", the "norm" or "nature" prescribed by god and/or a natural order. As is the concept of mostly christian-inspired monogamy, which for example in the roman empire only started to appear at about the second century B.C. as it turned more and more into jesus-worshippers.


It's not hard to find plentiful sources, accounts, literature, love poems, diaries, etc.. at least for the more literate pre-christian societies such as ancient rome, greece, eqypt, china, etc.. to confirm this. I.e. ancient roman sexual "identity" and "common practices" aren't any less known to us than their military tactics, politics, etc.. .
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Hell just look at the ruins of pompei. We have graphic full color art examples of every sex practice you could imagine as common decoration in average peoples bedrooms. Then they have the brothel area with the whole menu listed/illustrated with prices for the various practices that was clearly along a main street side. The greeks and romans were not a shy folk about what they wanted and how they wanted it.
 
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Cybsled

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Best part of Pompeii is it is Ancient Rome protected from centuries of revisionism and changing culture. There is that one house where the dude decorated everything with erotic art and bragged about the size of his dong lol
 
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