Should you tip the waitress and how much thread

Palum

Palum

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opiate82_sl said:
I see what you are saying here but you are missing the some of the bigger pictures of the financials of running a restaurant. In Seattle the minimum wage is going from $9.32-$15.00, which is about a 60% increase. Since labor is about 1/3 of a restaruants expenses, a 20% increase in menu prices should cover the difference.

The problem is, every single menu price increase I have ever taken has resulted in a corresponding drop in transaction counts. I raise prices 5%, the number of orders I have coming in drops 5%. The price-sensitive consumers (who probably weren't tipping as much to begin with) will trade-down. While that may seem those things cancel each other out and the same amount of money is coming in overall, lower volumes leave a restaurant vulnerable to economic factors. Economy takes a downturn and you lose more customers through no fault of your own, for example, it can cripple a restaurant with low volume.

Also low volume will negatively affect your food cost. Generally speaking, the amount of food waste at the end of the night is the same no matter how many orders you do. Doesn't matter if I sell 250 pizzas or 500 pizzas on a given day, I will probably have about 10 pizza skins left over that end up thrown away at the end of the night. Even if I am selling my pizzas at an increased price the lower volume will result in my overall food costs being a higher percentage of my expenses, reducing margins (which as am sure you know, are already razor thin in the restaurant industry).

It isn't nearly as simple as shifting how the money is accounted for. Any price increase will have rippling effects over other aspects of a restaruants business.

Finally, there is the employee incentive. With the current tipping structure, that 20% currently coming in via tips isn't evenly distributed. The servers who do a better job (or have bigger boobs) tend to get a larger cut. You build that into the menu price and evenly distribute it the more motivated waiters aren't going to be nearly as enthusiastic and the big-boobed women will find other jobs where they can better capitalize on their looks. Empirically I can tell you the the quality of the minimum wage worker I get today now that we have the highest state minimum wage in the country is vastly inferior to those I used to get 15 years ago.
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I agree with most of this but the incentives part is simply wrong, no one working a 'job' (ie not career or professional position) gives a shit about money anymore. Society has changed. My company employs hundreds of commissions based staff. 15 years ago, money was THE motivator. People would toanythingto make the extra few dollars. Today, regardless of how 'money motivated' they make themselves sound in the interview the drive is not there. Gender, race, age, it just doesn't matter. People have become too comfortable. Odd, given the recent financial crisis. I have employees who will hit goal on the 17th of the month and instead of quadrupling their take home, they just slack for the rest of the month. I have employees who will make a killing and hit a $10K bonus check and quit because they don't need to work for a few months. I have employees who ask not to be paid a $1200 bonus check because it will cause them to lose $2K/mo in state housing benefits because their income will rise too much.

It's a different fucking world, no one associates money with the goods and services they want anymore. It's all just comfort of the moment bullshit. It isVERYhard to find driven people anymore. Most 'driven' people are only that way until they themselves become nice and comfy. Then prepare for NC/NS, flat tires, dead Grandmothers and FMLA. Sucks to be hiring right now.
 
Palum

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Draegan_sl said:
lol u dum.
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Sorry, but thems the truths. Very few people think long term and very few people work hard except when they are at risk. I wasn't alive in the '50s, so maybe that's always been the case, but you're living in fantasy-land if you think giving a $10/hr employee a $1/hr raise is going to actually do anything in most cases besides prevent them from quitting and you taking on more costs to rehire/retrain.

Let me put this another way:

You pay the people youneedto keep whatever is going to make them comfortable. Everyone is replaceable, the only real question is how many people you would need to replace them with. If you motivate with money, it's ephemeral. They will take any amount of money and look for more without accomplishing anything else. In the end it's cheaper to pay money to make people happy than it is to pay people money to make them happy.

EDIT: my point was merely that the world's large breasted women would not up and leave food service if they suddenly were given fair wages and work environments instead of having to learn tricks like writing smiley faces on tabs or touching male diners on the shoulder for larger tips. Every other type of business in the world survives without this.
 
Abefroman

Abefroman

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Palum_sl said:
I agree with most of this but the incentives part is simply wrong, no one working a 'job' (ie not career or professional position) gives a shit about money anymore. Society has changed. My company employs hundreds of commissions based staff. 15 years ago, money was THE motivator. People would toanythingto make the extra few dollars. Today, regardless of how 'money motivated' they make themselves sound in the interview the drive is not there. Gender, race, age, it just doesn't matter. People have become too comfortable. Odd, given the recent financial crisis. I have employees who will hit goal on the 17th of the month and instead of quadrupling their take home, they just slack for the rest of the month. I have employees who will make a killing and hit a $10K bonus check and quit because they don't need to work for a few months. I have employees who ask not to be paid a $1200 bonus check because it will cause them to lose $2K/mo in state housing benefits because their income will rise too much.

It's a different fucking world, no one associates money with the goods and services they want anymore. It's all just comfort of the moment bullshit. It isVERYhard to find driven people anymore. Most 'driven' people are only that way until they themselves become nice and comfy. Then prepare for NC/NS, flat tires, dead Grandmothers and FMLA. Sucks to be hiring right now.
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What the fuck? What fucking industry is this?
 
Palum

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Abefroman_sl said:
What the fuck? What fucking industry is this?
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Collections. Epitome of crazy town and exactly what happens when you give minimum wage workers the chance to earn 60-80K a year if they A) come to work B) follow the law and C) put effort in every day. Some do, more don't care after a certain point. Don't get me wrong, professionals exist but more people are seat warmers.

I hire bartenders, waitresses, hairdressers, etc. who can hold a conversation and are intelligent enough to not cause a lawsuit. The same people that make 'big tips' and would leave the industry. They can make big bucks, they just don't care once they hit their personal comfort level with income. So not buying it.
 
khalid

khalid

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Quaid_sl said:
Who the heck is tipping $20 on a $40 tab?
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Sorry, fuck, I meant 20%.
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OneofOne

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opiate82_sl said:
Doesn't matter if I sell 250 pizzas or 500 pizzas on a given day, I will probably have about 10 pizza skins left over that end up thrown away at the end of the night.
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Psst! Why not take those skins, throw 'em in a plastic bag in the walkin, and fold the dough back into your dough rolls the next day? No wonder your margins are so small! =P
 
opiate82

opiate82

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Palum_sl said:
I agree with most of this but the incentives part is simply wrong, no one working a 'job' (ie not career or professional position) gives a shit about money anymore. Society has changed.
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Maybe in your industry this is true, but I still see plenty of great waiters/waitresses who work their asses off and fight over tables to get their tips.
 
Palum

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opiate82_sl said:
Maybe in your industry this is true, but I still see plenty of great waiters/waitresses who work their asses off and fight over tables to get their tips.
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Fighting over tables? What kind of bullshit is that? Maybe that's why it's so hard to get a decent dining experience anywhere.

I rarely see what I consider good wait staff working hard, rather they are brutally efficient. It's the shitty ones who are running around at mach 3 and think they can memorize 14 orders before they hit the order terminal that end up fucking everything up but I guess it's OK because 'they work hard' (and wear v-neck shirts).
 
Quineloe

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Draegan_sl said:
Also this whole "subsidize labor costs" is a stupid argument. It saves you money in the long run.

And tax evasion? Really? That pisses you off? Someone making $30k to 40k a year is skipping out on a few extra thousand dollars a year and you're butthurt on that? I'd like to be the first person to inform you that mostly everyone cheats on their taxes in some form or another; legal or otherwise.
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I like how you take the worst possible idea on every post of mine
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D

Draegan_sl

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Not at all. I'm just saying it's not a unique to servers nor is it the most severe case of tax evasion across the spectrum. To use tax evasion as a reason to speak against tipping, it's just stupid. Most people continue to use services and by products from many companies that perform tax evasion (legal or otherwise) every single day.

And as an aside, if you're really concerned about tax evasion and you want to really make sure a server is paying all his taxes (why you care this much is beyond me), then use a credit card. And since almost everyone uses debit/credit cards these days, less and less evasion is taking place.
 
Z

Zuuljin

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Serious question as I deal with it every so often. Where does the normal 15%-20% tipping fit into restaurants that are going into tablet ordering systems? For instance there is aStackednearby that I frequent, where you order and pay through the tablet. Servers exist just to ask if you know how to use the tablet, or for those who don't technology, but for most of my meal, no one bugs me unless I click the re-fill drink on the tablet. Then at the end of the payment process I see 3 big buttons "Tip: 10% 15% 20%". There's an 'other' of course, but its small print off in the corner. All the staff has to do is just walk my order out to me and that's it. Is that worth 20%?

I usually alternate between 15-20% just because I go there often and they recognize me, but every time I press that 20% button I feel a bit ripped off.
 
Palum

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Zuuljin_sl said:
Serious question as I deal with it every so often. Where does the normal 15%-20% tipping fit into restaurants that are going into tablet ordering systems? For instance there is aStackednearby that I frequent, where you order and pay through the tablet. Servers exist just to ask if you know how to use the tablet, or for those who don't technology, but for most of my meal, no one bugs me unless I click the re-fill drink on the tablet. Then at the end of the payment process I see 3 big buttons "Tip: 10% 15% 20%". There's an 'other' of course, but its small print off in the corner. All the staff has to do is just walk my order out to me and that's it. Is that worth 20%?

I usually alternate between 15-20% just because I go there often and they recognize me, but every time I press that 20% button I feel a bit ripped off.
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Yea the Chilis near me has this now too. Literally the waitress stops by twice: once to explain the tablet and take the main food orders and once to accept payment. The rest of the time it's food runners. Why the fuck do you deserve 20% for acting like a EULA I have to scroll through before I can just order my food.
 
Quaid

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Palum_sl said:
Yea the Chilis near me has this now too. Literally the waitress stops by twice: once to explain the tablet and take the main food orders and once to accept payment. The rest of the time it's food runners. Why the fuck do you deserve 20% for acting like a EULA I have to scroll through before I can just order my food.
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A server in most situations gets nowhere near the full tip you have given them. Between tipping out the kitchen, bartender, support staff, and sometimes even the 'house', most servers walk away with anywhere from 50-75% of what you actually tipped them.

And anyone who thinks a retail job is anywhere near as demanding as a waiter/waitressing job, both physically and emotionally, needs to give their head a shake.
 
Conefed

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$1 if they're bad
$2 if they're basic
$5 if they're good
$8 if they're great
$12 if they're exceptional
$20 if they're transcendent
 
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